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Thread: Lactate or power?

  1. #11
    Master noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr brightside View Post
    Ok, but what to you reckon the precise cause of the problem is?
    You're not used to moving your legs that quickly. Try counting 1,2,3 every second (not while running - while reading this). That's how fast your footfalls should be. Generally we're a lot slower on the fells, so when we get to a runnable bit we struggle to up-tempo.

    That's what's worked for me anyway. I do 6 lots of ~600 metres every few weeks. This really seemed to help my leg speed.
    No longer "resting"

  2. #12
    Senior Member Alan Lucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr brightside View Post
    It won't be muscle damage, i don't train or run enough, it's a lack of some type of conditioning. It looks like from the pre-Dom's twopenneth concensus on here so far, it's likely to be lack of condition of fast twitch muscle fibres, rectified by weight sessions or fast track work or both.
    Speed endurance training will help. Plus the weights will back that training up. But you incur muscle damage (however small) in every race , and most training. So i recon it will be a contributing factor.

  3. #13
    Master mr brightside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel View Post
    You're not used to moving your legs that quickly. Try counting 1,2,3 every second (not while running - while reading this). That's how fast your footfalls should be. Generally we're a lot slower on the fells, so when we get to a runnable bit we struggle to up-tempo.

    That's what's worked for me anyway. I do 6 lots of ~600 metres every few weeks. This really seemed to help my leg speed.
    So 6 sets of about 600mtrs with three footsteps per second? Total dist 3.6k.

    This formula sort of answers my cadence question.

    I'm going to try a very light weights session in the gym before work tommorrow. 10-15 reps with 20 a side or something then go get changed; i might be able to shoehorn it in if it's gradual enough in its increases. I'm going to try this fast feet thing in my training runs for now, but look to get some track time in. Only issue is i'll have to join a track running group, but there are 2 sports colleges near me (Beckett and Trinity Leeds) and both have tracks.
    Can't climb for toffee...

  4. #14
    Master mr brightside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lucker View Post
    Speed endurance training will help. Plus the weights will back that training up. But you incur muscle damage (however small) in every race , and most training. So i recon it will be a contributing factor.
    I like the idea of track sessions for speed endurance and over short distances like 400, any longer and i'll end up making long strides.

    Where's Dom on this one? Perhaps he's feverishly preparing to drop a massive landmine of information on me.
    Can't climb for toffee...

  5. #15
    Master noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr brightside View Post
    Only issue is i'll have to join a track running group, but there are 2 sports colleges near me (Beckett and Trinity Leeds) and both have tracks.
    I do my reps on a mixture of canal tow-path and tarmac cycle route. It doesn't have to be a track. I think the advantage of track sessions is that you're more likely to turn up and do them.
    No longer "resting"

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel View Post
    I do my reps on a mixture of canal tow-path and tarmac cycle route. It doesn't have to be a track. I think the advantage of track sessions is that you're more likely to turn up and do them.
    That, and training with a group usually makes me work a bit harder than on my own. We did 5x1600 with 3 min recovery on track last night - I'd have prefered it to be round some playing fields but the track had the advantage of a big group, great atmosphere and reliable paces (times 4:58-5:02).
    Fell, road, track, XC... it's all good running.

  7. #17
    Master mr brightside's Avatar
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    Did a weights session this morning, 10 a side plus the bar, 20 reps. Does anyone find it difficult to keep their arse in line? Mine ferrets around and doesn't stay in line. I think what i'm going to do Noel is go to a track and see who gets to use it, hopefully there will be a running club with it booked one day a week for an hour which is what i'm after. Joining the college membership scheme will probably result in a cost in line with the 24/7 access i'd get.
    Can't climb for toffee...

  8. #18
    Master noel's Avatar
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    Report back to let us know if it's worked. Good luck.
    No longer "resting"

  9. #19
    Grandmaster dominion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr brightside View Post
    I like the idea of track sessions for speed endurance and over short distances like 400, any longer and i'll end up making long strides.

    Where's Dom on this one? Perhaps he's feverishly preparing to drop a massive landmine of information on me.
    Me? I'm not a massive fan of weight training for distance running. I used to do circuit training with a sprint squad during the winter which was about as close as I got. I've never been convinced of the benefits, but then I've never run as well as when I was doing them so I guess it helped... One member of the group that I did circuit training with went on to get a bronze medal at the Olympics.

    The advantage of training on a track is the distances are absolute (unless you've got access to a proper calibrated measuring wheel), so you can track improvements week on week / month on month. This time of year, I'd just be having, or just had have a week or 2 off and be switching focus from the track season to the road and cross country season, emphasis on conditioning and building a solid base to lay the foundations for the hard graft when the cross country championship races arrive. Typically, early season would include hill reps once a week and some good solid mileage. Longer reps through until Christmas then getting shorter and sharper after Christmas for county, area and national cross country championships. I generally got to the area champs in good nick, and burned out before the national cross. What do I know eh?

  10. #20
    Master mr brightside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominion View Post
    Me? I'm not a massive fan of weight training for distance running. I used to do circuit training with a sprint squad during the winter which was about as close as I got. I've never been convinced of the benefits, but then I've never run as well as when I was doing them so I guess it helped... One member of the group that I did circuit training with went on to get a bronze medal at the Olympics.

    The advantage of training on a track is the distances are absolute (unless you've got access to a proper calibrated measuring wheel), so you can track improvements week on week / month on month. This time of year, I'd just be having, or just had have a week or 2 off and be switching focus from the track season to the road and cross country season, emphasis on conditioning and building a solid base to lay the foundations for the hard graft when the cross country championship races arrive. Typically, early season would include hill reps once a week and some good solid mileage. Longer reps through until Christmas then getting shorter and sharper after Christmas for county, area and national cross country championships. I generally got to the area champs in good nick, and burned out before the national cross. What do I know eh?
    Cheers Dom, but what do you reckon the problem in the OP is down to?
    Can't climb for toffee...

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