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Thread: LDMT why not more popular

  1. #11
    Senior Member Quinny's Avatar
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    I did this for the first time last year and it's the first date in the diary each year now. Very well organised event with many of the legends of fell running taking part e.g. Joss Naylor still competes each year. I agree it probably is the navigation which probably puts people off.

    Despite knowing the Lakes reasonably well the two courses I've done have taken me off the main paths to places I've never seen before and probably would never discover otherwise. The waterfall at check point 3 last year and the tarn below Great End at check point 4 this year stand out in particular.

    The classic course is apparently more demanding than a few years ago and I just managed to get round in time this year. It's probably similar to Wasdale in terms of distance and height. This might put people off but there are the medium and short course options.
    Mike Quinn
    Esk Valley Fell Club

  2. #12
    I don't get this 'navigation' puts people off when things like the OMM, Saunders and other MMs seem to be thriving. Perhaps it's largely a different set of people who enter these and they don't know how great the Mountain Trial is?
    There are a few things which could boost numbers for the LDMT:
    Who knew there was a first YHA member prize, and an Outward Bound Trophy (past or present instructors at OB Trust)? Perhaps both these organisations might help publicise the race?
    I thought for a while that LDMT would fit well with a number of other similar races in a Lakes Classic series (similar to the Lakes Classic fell series). Copeland and Allerdale Chases (2 separate races), Tim Watkins Trophy and Warrior O Trial would make up a good series.

  3. #13
    Master DazTheSlug's Avatar
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    I've been keen to do LDMT for years, and I quite like events with a navigational aspect (offsets my running ability!)

    the reason I've never got round to it is that September (along with May) seems to be one of the most choc-a times of year for good events

    my faves include Bullock Smithy, Peris Horseshoe, 3 Shires, Lantern Pike and Sandstone Trail
    I'm doing High Peak 40 for the first time this year
    and I'm still also trying to work in a first appearance at Across Wales, Ben Nevis, Grisedale Horseshoe, Exterminator, Yorkshireman, Scafell Pike and 9 Edges!
    Scramble the rock face through the glare of morning sun to run

  4. #14
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaw View Post
    I don't get this 'navigation' puts people off when things like the OMM, Saunders and other MMs seem to be thriving. Perhaps it's largely a different set of people who enter these
    I suspect it is. Certainly whenever there's a MM-related thread on these forums, it gets far fewer replies than those for fell races.

  5. #15
    Senior Member LM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaw View Post
    I don't get this 'navigation' puts people off when things like the OMM, Saunders and other MMs seem to be thriving. Perhaps it's largely a different set of people who enter these and they don't know how great the Mountain Trial is?
    There are a few things which could boost numbers for the LDMT:
    Who knew there was a first YHA member prize, and an Outward Bound Trophy (past or present instructors at OB Trust)? Perhaps both these organisations might help publicise the race?
    I thought for a while that LDMT would fit well with a number of other similar races in a Lakes Classic series (similar to the Lakes Classic fell series). Copeland and Allerdale Chases (2 separate races), Tim Watkins Trophy and Warrior O Trial would make up a good series.
    I've done many MM's but always as a pair and I think that's the difference. My nav isn't so strong but with 2 of us, we always manage. I don't have the confidence to tackle this event and wouldn't enjoy it if the weather turned nasty.
    Linda Murgatroyd, Calder Valley Fell Runners

  6. #16
    Senior Member LM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karen nash View Post
    Linda, you should give it ago. Ask for an early or mid start so then there will be many coming along behind you. I amnit suggesting you follow but there are only 3 courses and some controls are used by more than one course. You are unlikely to be totally alone and you know quite a bit of the Lakes well from races and other runs anyway.

    I suggested to get more youngsters they advertised it as Extreme Mountain Long O and marketed it at the British O Champs and Jk.
    I would like to do it Karen, maybe I'll be brave and tackle it next year.
    Linda Murgatroyd, Calder Valley Fell Runners

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Stagger View Post
    I've done many MM's but always as a pair and I think that's the difference. My nav isn't so strong but with 2 of us, we always manage. I don't have the confidence to tackle this event and wouldn't enjoy it if the weather turned nasty.
    I agree it would make a good pairs event and you could try lobbying the LDMTAssociation although I suspect they might consider it a dilution of the test of individual mountaincraft. There are some quirky rules - not allowed to take help from anyone, including other competitors. Personally I'd include helping each other as good mountaincraft.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaw View Post
    I don't get this 'navigation' puts people off when things like the OMM, Saunders and other MMs seem to be thriving. Perhaps it's largely a different set of people who enter these and they don't know how great the Mountain Trial is?
    There are a few things which could boost numbers for the LDMT:
    Who knew there was a first YHA member prize, and an Outward Bound Trophy (past or present instructors at OB Trust)? Perhaps both these organisations might help publicise the race?
    I thought for a while that LDMT would fit well with a number of other similar races in a Lakes Classic series (similar to the Lakes Classic fell series). Copeland and Allerdale Chases (2 separate races), Tim Watkins Trophy and Warrior O Trial would make up a good series.
    I think a national league more akin to the RunFurther ultra league would work well. Include the Capricorn, the new and hopefully regular Northern Navigators event in the Ingram Valley, Kinder Trial, Copeland Chase, LDMT, Long Mynd, maybe the Rab MM as a solo etc.

    Knock up a cheap website, get someone to donate prizes.... Long O is cool!

  9. #19
    LDMTA is challenging in all aspects and that's its appeal as a tough race requiring navigational skills and competencies as well as fitness and ability to stay safe whilst out on the mountains for a good few hours.

    The standard of difficulty is greater than other similar events because for the long and medium course a 1.40,000 map is used. A 1.25000 for the short course did not show the detail of the crags and I became crag bound on Bessyboot and had to descend to find a better route. Coming out of the first control I made a 180 degree error so even with years of navigational experience behind me I can and still do make errors. The other reason it is tougher, in my view, is that the legs between controls are long giving lots of route choice options and requiring a constant ability to know where you are. Mostly it is cross country without following paths or other line features. An ability to read contours, use a compass, estimate distances etc is necessary. It is what every fell runner should be able to do.

    If you do not have these skills they are easy to learn through orienteering and there are lots of training and other local events run by a club who would I am sure help a runner's navigational development and learning. It gives the confidence to go anywhere alone in wild places and surely that is why we run on the fells.

    It will also help your running as a fell runner as you have to run across and through the toughest terrain - marshes, thick undergrowth, up hills, across streams, and the world's elite are doing that incredibly fast. It is not a coincidence that the team that won the FRA relays at Kettlewell and last year who posted some of the fastest times are also top orienteers. If the mist is thick and low on Pendle Hill this year, good navigation will be essential on some of the legs.

    I have not enjoyed a Trial as much as I did this year. Derek Ratcliffe's courses were superb and his pedigree as a multi KIMM elite winner and great runner shone through.

    If you would like to do it next year but lack a little confidence then just try running on a compass bearing or looking at a map and working out what the contours say.
    The location is made public by the time entries are open these days so you can book accommodation in the area.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by gaw View Post
    I agree it would make a good pairs event and you could try lobbying the LDMTAssociation although I suspect they might consider it a dilution of the test of individual mountaincraft. There are some quirky rules - not allowed to take help from anyone, including other competitors. Personally I'd include helping each other as good mountaincraft.
    I am afraid I would consider a pairs event a dilution of the event, but then I am personally drawn to the individual challenge, but there could be an argument for the option of doing it as a pair. As long as there are enough entries that the event is not in any kind of jeopardy, I am not worried. I started this thread merely because I was puzzled at how few entries there are compared to some of the longer fell races, when the quality of the courses is so high. There are not many younger runners either, but that is the same with longer fell races.

    It seems the conclusions might be that
    a) People are put off my the navigation and self reliance that comes with it (and this is one of a few events that cater for this)
    b) It could be better promoted, particularly towards younger runners.

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