aggressive mud shoe?

[tthef]

I am looking for a recommendation for an aggressive mud shoe to replace inov-8's yellow mudclaw 300. I have owned four pairs of the yellows and loved them dearly, they provided excellent grip in the Scottish permamud, and for me were the right balance between minimalist and not.

Unfortunately, the current (red and blue) version of the 300 is a completely different, general purpose rather than mud, shoe. Apart from other changes, Inov-8 reduced the height of the lugs by about 1/3, as well as their footprint, most noticeably in the toe area, and the result is a rather poor performance on muddy ground; I notice it particularly when climbing, they loose traction as soon as conditions move beyond 'tacky'. This is rather disappointing.

(FWIW, the red and blue mudclaw seems to be quite a decent all around shoe that performs well on loose ground, and it is much better for scrambling than the yellows were due to the lower profile of the sole -- sort of a shoe for the three weeks of Scottish summer that come once every few years.)

[mr brightside]

That one might need running past the company for clarification, the mudclaw is the best shoe for the worst mud. The Walsh PB Racer isn't far behind and would be my next choice.

[stumpy]

I'd agree with that - just been staring at both my yellow and red/blue Mudclaw and the tread depth is identical as far as I can tell (10mm). The new one has a flatter profile in the heel, which I can only think would improve grip given more contact area and is a lot lighter than it's names suggest (265g UK 7.5 on my scale, the yellow is 301).

What shape are the lugs?

[tthef]

FWIW, I measured the lugs on a pair of nearly new shoes with a vernier calliper . On the yellows, the lugs are ~10mm in height, on the R/B they are ~7mm.

On the attached image, on the left is a nearly new yellow, on the right is one that has done around 450 miles, in the middle is the R/B that has done around 100 miles (you can find a picture of a brand new R/B on the Inov-8 website). For complete disclosure, the leftmost is size 10.5, the other two size 10).

The thread depth on the R/B is not far off from the worn out yellow. The smaller footprint of the R/B lugs in front of the metaflex band is clearly visible (see how on the Y you get two horseshoes that interleave; on the R/B they don't, most noticeably at the big toe edge). The front 'claw' is pretty much worn off now, as it was very small in to start with.

Also see how the edges on the big lugs after the metaflex band are more slack, to make the shorter lugs more pointy; this makes them noticeably less edgy.

claws2.jpg

[mapper]

I agree. The yellow 300's have a deeper lug. I have a brand new pair with 10mm lugs. I wonder why they've reduced the lug depth on the new R/B shoes which have replaced the yellow 300's. Seems penny pinching to me. However, I've not tried the new R/B yet so can't comment on grip comparison.
Can Inov-8 give us an explanation?

[stumpy]

Sorry - not convinced. I'm not saying you are wrong and the picture tells the story you say - the middle lugs do look a tad shallower but that could also be a factor of the colour. Without a new one of each side by side its difficult to say. Maybe a Vernier caliper on a brand new pair would prove that the new ones are 8mm and the old ones 10mm, but either way, I've not found any issues with grip when using the new one compared to the old and the proof of the pudding is in the eating! The flatter profile might help - if more studs are making ground contact, even if they are slightly shallower, then grip will be at least as good. It's also lighter - possibly because they've shaved off a bit of tread depth, but so what if it still grips like nothing else?

Have you asked Inov 8?

[Martin Hancock]

Glad to see this debate has started. I'm half a dozen runs (inc. the 3 Shires and yesterday's Langdale) into my ownership of a pair of R/B mudclaws and they are a very poor imitation of the previous yellow model. The grip is substantially inferior on both rock and mud/wet ground and although it'd be hard to say why with any certainty, I'd also say the 'feel' over the ground is rather poorer as well. Conversations I've had with others wearing them at both races suggest that quite a few people are similarly underwhelmed.

As things stand the R/B shoes will now be relegated to 'not particularly well liked shoes used for the odd training run' status and I will have to revert to my rather knackered old yellow pair for races while trying to find an alternative to mudclaws. I wouldn't go near mudclaws again in their current form and have never liked Walshes, so am left deliberating over something more left field like La Sportiva....all a bit disappointing given how great the old yellow mudclaws were.

I emailed inov8 via the address given on their website a couple of weeks ago to aks them about the changes and the reasoning behond them and to share my thoughts on the new mudclaw. I have yet to receive a reply, which may tell you all you need to know about their interest in customers and customer feedback......

[Derby Tup]

Does Hopey still look at the forum? He works for Inov-8, or at least he did till recently. Alternatively Graham will be along soon I'm sure to tell us how lucky we are are to have such great product

[richsund]

More Mile Cheviot 2's are uncannily similar to the yellow mudclaws, can't remember whether the studs are quite as big but they're definitely similar. I'm not really a fan because mine fell apart in 100 miles, but I suppose they're another option to throw into the pot.

[Graeme78]

Does Hopey still look at the forum? He works for Inov-8, or at least he did till recently. Alternatively Graham will be along soon I'm sure to tell us how lucky we are are to have such great product

Yeah he still works for them. Not sure if he still looks at the forum though.