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Thread: Brexit

  1. #21
    Super Moderator Derby Tup's Avatar
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    I cant see Boz making a difference, well not in a positive way for outers. He's a laughing stock for anyone who isn't a Tory
    Poacher turned game-keeper

  2. #22
    Moderator noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    Boris is a more attractive proposition than Farage...
    Everybody's nightmare scenario at a party.
    No longer "resting"

  3. #23
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derby Tup View Post
    I cant see Boz making a difference, well not in a positive way for outers. He's a laughing stock for anyone who isn't a Tory
    You want to ask Red Ken if he's a laughing stock. Put him in his place in London twice against all odds.
    Livingstone described him as "the most formidable opponent I will face in my political career" in 2008 and seems to have been proven right.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  4. #24
    Moderator noel's Avatar
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    Potentially a big plus for the leave campaign: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/i...20160224106510
    No longer "resting"

  5. #25
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    Every morning I listen to Radio 4 and there are always lots of valid arguements to stay in europe BUT i have yet to hear one from the leave campaign. All they say is its scare monegering and then there are Jacob Rhys Mogg soundbites that I imagine 90% of the population don't understand.

  6. #26
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxinterior View Post
    Every morning I listen to Radio 4 and there are always lots of valid arguements to stay in europe BUT i have yet to hear one from the leave campaign. All they say is its scare monegering and then there are Jacob Rhys Mogg soundbites that I imagine 90% of the population don't understand.
    Perhaps that is because you are not interested as you've already indicated?

    I can't speak for that particular programme, but the arguments put forward by Remain seem to be red herrings.
    1. Security - NATO is the important organisation here and if anything the EU has jeopardised safety with its policy in Eastern Europe.
    2. Trade and jobs - as I have previously indicated, there is a ready made WTO framework that we will move in to. If we do not secure a trade agreement with the EU on leaving, a framework is there and trade will continue.
    3. Inward investment - The UK topped the tables for inward investment before joining the EEC in the early 70s and has continued to do so since the referendum was announced.
    4. Environment - the UN is the primary vehicle for dealing such issues and the EU currently work with non-EU nations so it should not be affected.
    5. Employment - the UK has adopted the Social Chapter. It is in UK law. It will remain in UK law when we leave the EU.

    I do take your point though about the lack of cohesion in the leave campaign.

    But examine the two sides.

    Remain - the Government - with the full back up of the civil service are going to look more cohesive. They have a leader in Cameron and he has a bunch of loyal followers. Note though the Labour reluctance to stand alongside, probably as a result of their experience in the Scottish referendum and possibly due to some of the leaderships historical anti-EU stance.

    Leave - lots of fragmented factions and pressure groups from opposite wings of politics. New to the table are the breakaway Tory ministers and MPs. They allowed Cameron time to negotiate and have only been let of the leash in the last couple of weeks.
    I think the Tory element of Leave will co-ordinate over the coming weeks. Whether you like them or not, they have some experience and they also have some time.
    They can come together with Labour people like Frank Field and Kate Hoey and hopefully present a more positive outlook, because I do believe there is one.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    Perhaps that is because you are not interested as you've already indicated?

    I can't speak for that particular programme, but the arguments put forward by Remain seem to be red herrings.
    1. Security - NATO is the important organisation here and if anything the EU has jeopardised safety with its policy in Eastern Europe.
    2. Trade and jobs - as I have previously indicated, there is a ready made WTO framework that we will move in to. If we do not secure a trade agreement with the EU on leaving, a framework is there and trade will continue.
    3. Inward investment - The UK topped the tables for inward investment before joining the EEC in the early 70s and has continued to do so since the referendum was announced.
    4. Environment - the UN is the primary vehicle for dealing such issues and the EU currently work with non-EU nations so it should not be affected.
    5. Employment - the UK has adopted the Social Chapter. It is in UK law. It will remain in UK law when we leave the EU.

    I do take your point though about the lack of cohesion in the leave campaign.

    But examine the two sides.

    Remain - the Government - with the full back up of the civil service are going to look more cohesive. They have a leader in Cameron and he has a bunch of loyal followers. Note though the Labour reluctance to stand alongside, probably as a result of their experience in the Scottish referendum and possibly due to some of the leaderships historical anti-EU stance.

    Leave - lots of fragmented factions and pressure groups from opposite wings of politics. New to the table are the breakaway Tory ministers and MPs. They allowed Cameron time to negotiate and have only been let of the leash in the last couple of weeks.
    I think the Tory element of Leave will co-ordinate over the coming weeks. Whether you like them or not, they have some experience and they also have some time.
    They can come together with Labour people like Frank Field and Kate Hoey and hopefully present a more positive outlook, because I do believe there is one.

    It seems to me that on the remain side you get coherant arguements - ie Bank of England, and all you hear on the out are the Tory Super Posh who just say it is all scare mongering

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by luxinterior View Post
    It seems to me that on the remain side you get coherant arguements - ie Bank of England, and all you hear on the out are the Tory Super Posh who just say it is all scare mongering
    .

    Mmmh.

    I think what the Forum needs to free members' minds and time for important matters like fell running is the calm, clear, succinct advice of a wise, omniscient sage who in a personally disinterested way has examined all the issues in an objective, apolitical, economic long term and historical world context.



    So where is Always Injured?
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  9. #29
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxinterior View Post
    It seems to me that on the remain side you get coherant arguements - ie Bank of England, and all you hear on the out are the Tory Super Posh who just say it is all scare mongering
    I would contest what you say about the "coherent arguments".

    Firstly they are not coherent, but they are co-ordinated. They are in the main scaremongering from remain.

    The main point they seem to make is the certainty of the EU against the uncertainty outside the EU.

    There is nothing certain about the EU - have you seen the latest measures taken by the ECB, reducing the already negative interest rates and expanding the QE?
    The Germans are going nuts about it.
    It could all fall down around us. It is held together with loans and sticking plaster at the moment.

    Moving to those that are making what you feel are coherent arguments.
    Cameron, Osborne - are they not "Tory Super Posh"? I don't like the label, but it would seem to fit them as well as anyone in this debate.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  10. #30
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    .

    Mmmh.

    I think what the Forum needs to free members' minds and time for important matters like fell running is the calm, clear, succinct advice of a wise, omniscient sage who in a personally disinterested way has examined all the issues in an objective, apolitical, economic long term and historical world context.



    So where is Always Injured?
    I think he's keeping out of the way of your multiple forum personality disorder
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

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