Brexit

[DrPatrickBarry]

Do the DUP like cricket?

[Wheeze]

Travs said "Sorry for the simplistic view of politics... but...

How can they not vote this deal though, but then (likely) still give her a vote of confidence tonight..."

To understand this you have to first realise that the MP's have a free vote as the "deal" is in place because of a Referendum, not a Conservative directive. So Tory MP's can vote against the deal without it being seen as voting against their party. Of course, non of them would vote for no confidence and Corbyn knows it. He's between a rock and hard place because he knows a vote of no confidence is a waste of time but equally would be seen to be weak if he did not call for one.

[Muddy Retriever]

So Tory MP's can vote against the deal without it being seen as voting against their party. Of course, non of them would vote for no confidence and Corbyn knows it. He's between a rock and hard place because he knows a vote of no confidence is a waste of time but equally would be seen to be weak if he did not call for one.

As you say he has very little chance of succeeding with the no confidence vote tonight. However I'd heard that Labour were going to repeatedly go for confidence votes in the weeks ahead. There has been some speculation that if Theresa May looked as if she was going down the no-deal path then hard Tory remainers like Grieve, Soubry etc. might withdraw their support. And obviously given the parliamentary arithmetic, it wouldn't take many rebels to bring down the Government. On the other hand Brexiteers could rebel if she opts for a second referendum or tries to soften the deal any further e.g. Norway plus Customs Union. So Theresa May really is between a rock and a hard place.

[Stagger]

I think a general election is in order.

I can then ask my MP if they are a leave or remain supporter.

The government would then be made up of more politicians representing the voters.

Simples.

[Stagger]

Never mind.
The clock is ticking.

[CL]

I think the EU are now saying "what do you want?"

And the funny thing is, as a nation, we don't really know.

The only reason the nation doesn't know what it wants is because the losers are in control of the Brexit process. If Remain had won the vote we wouldn't be hearing from them on how the views of the losers(Brexiteers)should be taken into account. And you Noel would certainly not be on this forum advocating a watering down of EU membership if Remain had won.

[CL]

Aren't all 650 MPs culpable if only by omission? None seem to have the intellectual capacity to understand or solve the problem. Too busy telling us FACTS, which in truth are merely unsubstantiated opinions. "A no deal Brexit will be an economic catastrophe" - really? Prove it!
The political class have forgotten they are elected to serve the country, and not be self-serving. "When WE are in power" sums up the attitude, which has evolved over the last 15/20 years if not longer. As a few commentators have observed, the main stream parties are about to find out what the electorate think of them after this latest debacle, and it may not be pretty.

Very good point 'The Grump' and something I've noticed. Most of the politicians never explain why a no deal Brexit is such a bad thing, they just treat it as axiomatic.

[noel]

Good point CL, I wouldn't. The difference is that remain is a very clearly defined option. Whereas leave means different things to different people. There are many leave voters who want to still have free trade with Europe, and many who don't.

On your point to the Grump, there are lots of business people making many good points about why a no-deal Brexit is a bad thing. Maybe the politicians are listening to them.

[William Clough]

Oh I give up! When May finally decides to have cross party talks, Jezza starts imposing his own conditions. Even Mrs Clough who is a rabid Corbynite is annoyed with him. He really isn't doing himself or the Labour party any favours.

[Witton Park]

The difference is that remain is a very clearly defined option.

This is incorrect Noel.

Had this debate taken place before Maastricht I daresay that the same point would have been made - Remain is a clearly defined option.

But since then we have had:
Amsterdam, Nice and Lisbon Treaties.
We've had the ERM debacle.
The number of nations has almost doubled with most of them net costs on the EU budget.
Half the UK rebate was given up in exchange for reform of CAP which never happened.
The UK's voting weight within the EU has been watered down at Council and Parliament.
Our trade with the EU has fallen from around 60% of our international trade to around 40%.
Grants have been given directly or indirectly to UK based manufacturers to move to other areas of Europe.

That's gradual drift over 25 years.

So no one can tell what the gradual drift will be over the next 25 years.