Brexit

[Muddy Retriever]

On the contrary I knew exactly what I voted for. It was for an independent country that had the right to make its own laws and set its own trade policy. Just like the overwhelming number of countries around the world in fact and just as the UK was before 1973. As the fifth largest economy in the world it shouldn't have been beyond the realms of possibility.

Correct me if I'm wrong shaunaneto but I think you have previously said that you were a supporter of Scottish independence or at least have been in the past. Given that Scotland hasn't been independent since 1707 and unlike the UK doesn't currently have many of the essential features of nationhood such as it's own currency, central bank etc, why would you think Scottish independence would be more plausible than Brexit?

[Wheeze]

For me, the over-riding principle was preservation of Democracy...big D used deliberately. To be governed by an unelected Commission was not something I could agree with. And it was something the empire builders of europe have been trying to achieve for generations, usually by invasion and war.
Joining the common market was fair enough but the straitjacket of Maastrict was a step too far. That was when we should have had the referendum, not now when the bindings have got too tight!
The current state of affairs shows just how tight those bonds are and that Article 50 is rendered toothless.

[Llani Boy]

I knew what I voted for. To Leave. I did not vote to negotiate to leave. We should have left, pulled up the drawbridge and then started negotiations. Simplistic? yes, but better than the bollocks we now find ourselves in.

[CL]

I stand by the first para and wrt the second; we aren't at the end game yet.

IMHO self-serving millionaires like despicable Johnson sold a gullible public smoke and mirrors wrapped up in a union jack and, like people have been doing for thousands of years - they fell for it. But anyone can sell dreams; the hard part is making the dreams come true. The Brexit camp never have explained how and and never could because it was and is impossible. But Johnson is paid around £7000 for every weekly column he writes for The Daily Telegraph so what does he care?

In negotiation it takes two to make a deal and this fundamental truth has long been beyond the intellectual grasp of most MPs.

Whatever the economic arguments: the EC is about ideology and the big guns of the 27 are not willing to jeopardise that and see the edifice crumble for the sake of mere money and giving the UK a good deal to be followed out of the door by Italy.

Theresa May might be lacking in some areas but compared with the poisonous, weak hypocritical dwarves she is surrounded by and given the task she alone was prepared to take on - she hasn't done a bad job but, alas, nobody ever said politics was fair or honourable etc.

But thinking of Italy: yesterday I ordered my Bianchi in celeste with Campag. groupset - so the sun will still come up in the morning.

She's dishonest Graham. A no deal is better than a bad deal, that's what she said, and this is a very baddddd deal. She's backtracked at every turn. But the worst lie was putting herself forward for the PM position knowing she was a remainer. And those who backed her are just as bad. They and us can't complain now if we get a Corbyn government.

At one point in time I would have agreed with you on the EU having an ideology they'd stick to, but the deal they did with Trump under pressure shows they will put their principles aside for a good deal and bit of dough.

[CL]

And I always thought CL was right about the rabbits ( and everything) until he started wittering about Brexit. I think that was more of a let down than the actual result.

Well let me tell you this Millipede. If I was in charge I would have met with the EU and told them what I was going to do, not got up in the night to listen to what they wanted to do. Then I would have bypassed Barnier and Juncker and sent the message to industry in Germany etc that once we come out of the EU we'd deregulate and make this their new home.


But of course bureaucrats like Pat Barry would never accept it. He's against anything that would prevent Christian bakers being persecuted by homosexuals.

[CL]

And I always thought CL was right about the rabbits ( and everything) until he started wittering about Brexit. I think that was more of a let down than the actual result.

Percy's rabbits are still going strong Millipede........and that's without a warm-up.....still.

[CL]

Correct. But not necessarily by the people they think they’ve been betrayed by, you need to look to Mogg and Johnson. Both of whom are self servings *****. Remoaners get a lot of abuse for not getting on board with Brexit (although it’s hard to get on board when no one tells you what it is), but the reality for remoaners is largely they don’t want to see their neighbours, family, friends, or themselves finding out what it feels like to have homes repossessed. How close to reality those fears are is another question.



You voted for something without a clear idea of what it would look like. It’s far from the only reason we are being fed a shit sandwich but it’s one of them. Although I do accept Leave probably learnt from the SNP here. If they did produce something it would have been prime ammunition for tearing their case apart.



This is something that’s been responded to so many times you’ll never accept the strong hand was never that strong.



Because they are politicians with limited principles. None of them want to be responsible for making the electorate worse off and the political consequences that entails, and as they’re mostly remainers that’s what they believe would happen. Good job we’ve given them back control, maybe the ****ing idiots at least know where Dover is these days. For Christmas I might even send whoever is in charge directions to Felixstowe so they know about that as well.

You've got it completely wrong. This wasn't about money it was about independence. You had to be really low in intelligence to believe we'd be immediately better off when leaving the EU because they'd told us you can't have a better deal out than in.


Instead one has to look at the long term and see what could be achieved with strong government And I believe if we do this properly the future can look better outside the EU. But only if the weeds stop siding with the EU.

[Stagger]

I knew what I voted for. To Leave. I did not vote to negotiate to leave. We should have left, pulled up the drawbridge and then started negotiations. Simplistic? yes, but better than the bollocks we now find ourselves in.

Seconded.

[shaunaneto]

On the contrary I knew exactly what I voted for. It was for an independent country that had the right to make its own laws and set its own trade policy. Just like the overwhelming number of countries around the world in fact and just as the UK was before 1973. As the fifth largest economy in the world it shouldn't have been beyond the realms of possibility.

Eyup Muddy. I think I probably worded it badly. I’m not referring to your personal motivations to why you, or anyone, voted. Or what you would like to see from Brexit. I’m talking about the ‘instruction’ the referendum give Government on what it needs to deliver. Which currently is anything from BINO to WTO.

[shaunaneto]

You've got it completely wrong. This wasn't about money it was about independence. You had to be really low in intelligence to believe we'd be immediately better off when leaving the EU because they'd told us you can't have a better deal out than in.


Instead one has to look at the long term and see what could be achieved with strong government And I believe if we do this properly the future can look better outside the EU. But only if the weeds stop siding with the EU.

You’ve got it completely wrong. Remainers are well aware you believe this to be a matter of independence, they just think you’re talking bollocks.

And where did you get this “immediately” crap from? The majority of chatter I’m seeing indicates they believe this will leave us permanently poorer.