Brexit

[Stolly]

Use logic stolly.

You manage to disprove your own point.

Canada is not in the US but manages to export to it, we don’t need to be in the EU to export to that either.
Eu laments it’s inability under WTO to keep Chinese goods out!

Our balance of trade and balance of growth show the tide turning towards rest of the world. Eu is declining.

We are not in the US either, but manage to export more financial services there than EU

I’ve exported all round the world. EU made it harder not easier because externally it is a protection zone, not a free trade area.

Haha but the EU is signing up trade deals all around the world duh brain. And as part of the EU we benefit from that and in leaving we jeopardise and/or incredibly complicate that. And because of its size the EU can demand high standards and is much more powerful than the clout or lack of clout of one single country. Why do you think Canada and Japan were so keen to sign up trade deals with the EU?

[Oracle]

I just proved you don’t need to be in EU to trade with it,and so did you: that is what a trade deal is. It is why EU does trade deals.

And yes, it would be better to have one, but certainly not at a price of 39 billion or 10 billion a year, when on balance of trade, we are buyers! “ Duh brain.”

In reality it is a chink in a set of high walls, to eus protection zone, that makes exports harder for those selling out. I’ve done it, have you?

China is not what it was. They are now increasingly GMP , so the standards arguments is also increasingly fallacious.what EU declares as standards are just deliberate trade barriers, Singapore is the best educated work force in the world. Which is why such as Dyson went there, other than to escape corbyn thefts of property.

And a trade deal is like a suit of clothes. In Trying to fit 27 bodies it fits all of them badly, none of them well.
And because 27 are sat round the table with minnows deciding the whole. the decisions are lowest common denominator and take forever to do. Like a company that takes 7 years to make deals, and has too large a bureaucracy Eu will go bust, as others more nimble that take better decisions quicker beat the titanic,


So now you have disproved all your own arguments!

Haha but the EU is signing up trade deals all around the world duh brain. And as part of the EU we benefit from that and in leaving we jeopardise and/or incredibly complicate that. And because of its size the EU can demand high standards and is much more powerful than the clout or lack of clout of one single country. Why do you think Canada and Japan were so keen to sign up trade deals with the EU?

[Witton Park]

I completely agree with the assertion that a sensible majority like 60/40 should have been agreed up front. Kerfuffle-saving it would have been. I also agree with WP that the referendum question was correct. Binary Leave/Remain. Of course issues resulting from the decision would have had to be dealt with. Thats what politicians are for. We choose, they do. Or not in this case!!

60/40 is also flawed in my opinion Wheeze. I know some places have used this, but you can block any progress.

With hindsight, had we known the losers would not have accepted the result of THIS referendum (they've relished the Welsh Assembly on a thinner margin and turnout) the Government should have constructed a more robust referendum bill.

It seems the Remainers think Leavers didn't hear the countless claims of economic doom, that we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, and be subject to WTO terms.
Had we heard that, clearly we would have voted with the enlightened 48%.

So perhaps it could have been done with a paired electoral process.
eg.

First step, a referendum on Remain or Leave. The direction of travel.

If Leave, Second Step is to make the necessary arrangements often wrongly called leaving with a deal and then to put a second confirmatory referendum to the public on the deal or no deal.

If Remain, because the type of remain is really shaped by the EU28 or whatever the future numbers are, the second step is to build in a public confirmatory event such as has been offered to the assembly in Northern Ireland (it should be the public in my opinion as the politicians are barmy)

In that way, following a vote to Leave, we would have had a second one to decide what sort of leave.

In that way, following a vote to Remain it could not be as last time, for a 40 year period that allowed our political class to entangle us so much legally and bureaucratically without any consent by the public.

[Witton Park]

Singapore are a member of a south East Asian trade block aren’t they?

yes a free trade area. Not a single market, customs union, with a Parliament, several Presidents, a central bank, a court and the ability to pass laws and regs down to the constituent members.

[Witton Park]

Haha but the EU is signing up trade deals all around the world duh brain. And as part of the EU we benefit from that and in leaving we jeopardise and/or incredibly complicate that. And because of its size the EU can demand high standards and is much more powerful than the clout or lack of clout of one single country. Why do you think Canada and Japan were so keen to sign up trade deals with the EU?

The EU has done a little better of late, but it still hasn't a FTA with the 1st and 2nd biggest trading nations in the world, but many smaller nations do.
It is also negotiating trade deals which are imbalanced and not in our interests.
In fact the Irish are doing their fruit over the draft proposals for a deal with Mercosur and that is typical of what happens.
Canada and Japan will be keen (and have said as much) to sign up to FTAs with the UK.

[Wheeze]

I stand corrected Oracle. WP you make much common sense.

[Oracle]

The problem with the incessant remainer lies, is that they had the entire communications channels of government, aided by a partisan media and civil service to promote them which would cost a fabulous of money to duplicate.

Leave were always massively disadvantaged. Yet we notice it was leave that was challenged on campaign spending by an equally partisan electoral commission!

One day politicians will wise up. The element of truth in some of the remainer claims was so wildly exaggerated, that people disbelieved the claim completely.
If remain had been HONEST, they would have got more traction, perhaps enough to win. Remain was pathogenically dishonest and still is.


Yet all the leavers claims have one by one become true.

Our spending to EU is rapidly increasing, so whether or not the leave bus claim was 50 percent overstated, it is getting closer by the day - not least because our economy is doing better than theirs! so we end up paying more! So much for the cliff edge if we vote leave!

Our sovereignty is ebbing away in power grabs to brussels, and in total violation of Lisbon treaty on "subsidiarity", the EU army derided at the time as a "leave lie" has now been proven entirely true.

The EUs own information channels declare that 10 billion has been fraudulently wasted last year, so we can assume the real number is much higher(since EU has never been independently audited or honest, and sacks all whistleblowers) It is at least double that. So 2 bn of our 10 bn is going into EU fraud and dodgy deals. With no auditing the EU pigs have snouts firmly in the trough. And so on....

The gravy train from strasbourg to brussels still pours money down the toilet every day. The MEPs are treated like FIFA officials.The EU has the same morality as FIFA The amount of unnacounted expenses and chauffeur cars is a disgrace to those who pay for it.. They dont even pay proper tax. There is a special "EU tax rate" for all the EU pigs that have the snouts firmly in the EU trough.


There is still no way I can either amend or get amended legislation, or even sack those who decide legislation. There is no democracy whatsoever. The EU parliament is a sham. The only competence it had, to elect the next Juncker, was taken away this time!

The "turmoil" accompanying no deal was roundly disputed by none other than the man who runs calais docks! He says there will be teething troubles, but soon be back to normal. He is french, so not a leaver!

Then stollies claim, we need to be in the EU to trade with it. All the trade agreements with other countries prove we dont. The trade with EU by countries that dont have a trade deal, carry on regardless

The currency union is even closer to collapse than it was at the time we voted, and the devastation it has caused, is just as visible in youth employement and economic migration..


So leave got it spot on. Remainer claims have been disproven

The negative economic impact so far, is entirely remainers refusing to accept the vote, so sabotaging the way forward. We have left one bank of a river, remainer MPs refuse to go to the other side, or return.

Yet still remain, peddle the lies

Yes, the claim that just by voting to leave unemployment would increase by 500,000 to 800,000 was truly shocking and subsequently proven to be completely wrong.

[Witton Park]

I stand corrected Oracle. WP you make much common sense.

Made me laugh. I don't get many compliments on here, apart from occasionally for my races

[Oracle]

I stand corrected Oracle. WP you make much common sense.

Was that a back handed insult?
Quote Einstein "Common Sense is the net sum of all prejudice learned before the age of 18!"

[Witton Park]

so whether or not the leave bus claim was 50 percent overstated

It wasn't

You see the ONS figure might well be the gross figure, but it doesn't count certain other financial transfers.

It doesn't count the money we send to cover the EHIC card / the treatment of EU nationals here that are unrecovered because the NHS is conditioned not to collect, unlike other EU health services.

It also doesn't count the Import duty. When goods clear customs here in the UK, around 20% is taken as an admin fee by the UK and the 80% goes to the EU.
As this duty is the EU's duty, it doesn't show as a transfer in the ONS figures. Only the 20% admin fee shows as an income.

Further many RoW goods are cleared at EU Ports of entry. So the EU gets more than just the duty from UK direct imports, but in this situation the EU port of clearance gets the 20% admin portion, so a 100% of RoW import duty on Imports destined for the UK via a continental port goes to the EU.

We also have money from the DfID that is passed to the EU.

Add them all up, it comes closer to £500m