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Thread: Brexit

  1. #921
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stolly View Post
    Australia as an example of what? Good practice? Their annual and decreasing immigration thresholds are widely detested by businesses in Australia and are seen as shooting their economy in the foot and, as for their policy for dealing with asylum seekers, it’s particularly cruel: https://www.theguardian.com/australi...e_iOSApp_Other
    as an example of a system that manages the push and pull factors.

    Maybe we should just give the vote to the directors of companies quoted on the UK stock market? Business wants, business gets. Sod the plebs, even if only 5% of them are twats, lets treat them all like twats

    Here in the UK the policies of successive Governments have worked with the open borders to supress the earnings potential of the unskilled, low-paid worker.

    Of course UK businesses that utilise such labour directly or indirectly will moan at the prospect of any restrictions on access to the pool of such labour. But that can be mitigated by Government policy if they are pragmatic and creative, and actually to the benefit of all.
    Richard Taylor
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  2. #922
    Moderator noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    But that can be mitigated by Government policy if they are pragmatic and creative, and actually to the benefit of all.
    All who? There's a flip-side to most policies.

    If you reduced low-skilled immigration with the intent that existing UK residents will then get paid more to do low-skilled jobs, it clearly wouldn't benefit those foreign workers who currently come to the country and by increasing the labour pool, keep wages down. It might also increase prices as companies will have to increase labour costs. You could argue this is beneficial for society as a whole, to lift UK people out of relative poverty, and stop the drain of people from countries like Poland.

    Again, it's all about priorities. I've yet to hear a policy that actually benefits "all".

  3. #923
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    Adding to what Noel said. There is nothing at the moment stopping the UK goverement making labour changes (minimum wage, zero-hours contracts abuse, child care costs, etc) to make those jobs currenty done by non-UK citizens more attrative to UK citizens. They don't need to leave the EU to do so. These jobs exist for one reason only UK GOVERMENT POLICY.

  4. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry View Post
    Adding to what Noel said. There is nothing at the moment stopping the UK goverement making labour changes (minimum wage, zero-hours contracts abuse, child care costs, etc) to make those jobs currenty done by non-UK citizens more attrative to UK citizens. They don't need to leave the EU to do so. These jobs exist for one reason only UK GOVERMENT POLICY.
    The issue with some of the policies you mention is that they apply to all EU citizens in the EU. Our Government is responsible to and for us and it has to consider the wider consequences of policy.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  5. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel View Post
    All who? There's a flip-side to most policies.

    If you reduced low-skilled immigration with the intent that existing UK residents will then get paid more to do low-skilled jobs, it clearly wouldn't benefit those foreign workers who currently come to the country and by increasing the labour pool, keep wages down. It might also increase prices as companies will have to increase labour costs. You could argue this is beneficial for society as a whole, to lift UK people out of relative poverty, and stop the drain of people from countries like Poland.

    Again, it's all about priorities. I've yet to hear a policy that actually benefits "all".
    When I say for all, I'm sure you realise it is for the people in the UK and you're playing around a little. That would include migrants that have come and others that will.
    I cannot really expect that policy will benefit the residents of Nunavut.

    At the risk of repeating myself, we have 10 million part-time workers here in the UK. That doesn't suggest to me a labour shortage.
    It's a bit like going to buy more food when your fridge is half full.

    Make better use of the labour we have here, which is more easily done through policy after we leave, than it is when we are in.

    If you work for £8.50 per hour and get a 50p per hour increase, that's a decent increase.

    If you work £8.50 per hour for 25 hours and manage to get a full-time contract, that blows a minimum wage increase out of the water.

    Those workers are better off.
    DWP benefit support reduces.
    Treasury tax take increases.
    Those part-time workers that stay part-time by choice are no worse off, and actually will gain because of the improved financial position of the country.

    It can all be facilitated by a revenue neutral reform to employers national insurance.

    We keep hearing about productivity being stagnant in the UK and the way for people's financial position overall to improve is through improved productivity.

    Yet we have people going back and forth for 4-6 shifts of 4-6 hours a week, varying times, makes child-care very difficult as well as family life and having to be topped up.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  6. #926
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    I'm sat here working on my laptop having shipped my orders for the day, with the Emergency Debate in the Commons called by Kier Starmer.

    Last week the Commons passed a motion to ask for an extension.

    Mrs May asks for an extension, going against all her previous assurances.

    "How Dare You???" screams the opposition and calls and emergency debate.

    "But what is you problem with this extension request?" the Secretary of State asks of Starmer.
    Nothing.

    "But how long would the Labour Front bench prefer, if not 3 months"
    Nothing from Starmer again.

    Then we get a number of people, who want a 2nd referendum, asking the Government what they will do as they cannot bring back the PM's deal again as it would break with Parliamentary protocol unless the proposition was changed.
    "Isn't it time for us to go back to the people for a people's vote"

    Which funnily enough was defeated in a vote last week and therefore by the same protocol is now a goner.

    One Labour back-bencher stood up and explained that the North East Chambers of Commerce described the prospects of a No Deal Brexit as unsatisfactory, but failed to realise that Chamber had also backed the PM's deal which said MP had voted down on the 2 occasions previous.

    Earlier at PMQs Corbyn asked the PM what she planned as her defeated plan could not be brought back.

    She replied that his plan for a Customs Union had also been defeated last week and so was also dead.

    Corbyn seemed to claim a moral victory that his plan wasn't beaten by as much as the PM's.

    I think there's enough material today to keep the Parliamentary Sketch writers and cartoonists going for a month or two

    Monty Pythonesque.

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    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  7. #927
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    I think the EU are starting to get twitchy about us leaving with no deal. Where before they have managed to show a united front, no doubt with the help of the BBC/C4 etc not reporting, some interviews with various MEP's are now showing that the cracks are opening and hopefully the dam will burst.
    Visibility good except in Hill Fog

  8. #928
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    Interesting that today Jeremy Corbyn refused to attend a cross party meeting to discuss Brexit purely because Chuka Umunna was in attendance. Meeting with the IRA and Hamas is of course perfectly fine.

  9. #929
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Jeremy Corbyn is a waste of space

  10. #930
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    Yes, but he will be remembered as a very principled waste of space.

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