Brexit

[Dave_Mole]

his evocations of Europe / Germany as aggressors

he directly compared them to the Nazis.
Then denied it.
Then was found out.
So he went away for a while.

[Oracle]

I did not use the word nazi once.
You used that comparison. I neither said it nor believe it.



I used the phrase fourth reich to draw analogies with the european love of despotic empire building. Some of the analogies are frightening. For example: The amount of money sucked back to germany from all other countries, provable with Target 2, the attempt to permanent annexe of northern ireland under their rule with partial consent (the backstop) has awful parallels with Austria 38. Part of the austrian population welcomed them in.

The disdain for sovereignty of other lands . The parallels of verhofstadts "death of a nation state" speech with states becoming a Vichy administration.
Their new army that their chief diplomat says should "assert itself on the world stage" That is frightening.

We are well out.

No they are not using guns. They use the suffering of old people in greece as their weapon instead. They turn off the banks if you argue with them. They will do the same to poland, if they continue to argue about judicial policy or the hungarian states if they argue about migrants.. The ECB is their weapon of mass destruction. That was the reason for the euro. A weapon of control from which you cannot escape.


No they are not antisemitic. Look in Stollys labour party for that. But they are still fascist in the sense of an authoritarian rule that tolerates no dissent.


I do not deny that comparison. Because every part of it is true.


We joined a trading mutual benefit club. It became a despotic empire. They left us.

he directly compared them to the Nazis.
Then denied it.
Then was found out.
So he went away for a while.

[Dave_Mole]

I did not use the word nazi once.

no, you used the neo Nazi trope "Fouth Reich".
And now you're directly comparing the EU with

Austria 38

and saying that they are fascist.

You really don't know when to stop, do you?

[Oracle]

Now read exactly what I wrote above, and justified above.

The parallels are frightening.

no, you used the neo Nazi trope "Fouth Reich".
And now you're directly comparing the EU with and saying that they are fascist.

You really don't know when to stop, do you?

[Dave_Mole]

and here's what I said in reply to exactly the same point, not that long ago:

you’ve settled on the word “fascist” to describe the EU.....You seem to think that calling people fascist is bad, but calling organisations it is fine. Because to you, that’s somehow logical. You seem to think that any organisation which is “Authoritarian, undemocratic, dictatorships intolerant of any dissent” is fascist. And then accuse people of using the word indiscriminately. Well, here’s another thing, fascism is associated with extreme nationalism. So, I’m wondering, how can an umbrella organisation for 28 separate states somehow be nationalistic? I’ll leave aside the elected membership and fixed term presidency, as this is clearly authoritarian and undemocratic.

and editing posts doesn't make you look clever. It makes you look sad.

[Oracle]

and here's what I said in reply to exactly the same point, not that long ago:



and editing posts doesn't make you look clever. It makes you look sad.

Extreme nationalism is not necessarily part of fascism. Check the multiple definitions. I ensured I explained what I meant.

The contempt of Eu for sovereignty is a disgrace. “ death of a nation state” quote Verhofstadt,
The fact you accept annexation of Northern Ireland shows you are not understanding realities.
The eu had temerity to demand rights to live in Switzerland for Eu citizens just to trade. How dare they.
They destroy objectors financially.

Eu can only end badly. Sooner the better.

[Witton Park]

unsupported opinnion

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ent-propaganda

http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/fi...orporation.pdf

https://iea.org.uk/media/iea-analysi...al-programmes/

[Witton Park]

seems to me they were quite unpopular.
If you want to get into conspiracy theories about Brexit, what about Russia? Or aliens?

You talk about quality of posting and then come up with this.

Looks like you're having a bit of a meltdown. I'd take a bit of timeout if I were you.

[Witton Park]

and here we go again.

democracy trashed in Greece.
An Italian PM was forced out and replaced by an EU ex Commissioner.
The EU is threatening Governments such as Poland and Hungary.
The EU Parliament refused this week to debate the problems in Catalonia.
There seems to be an organised news blackout on the troubles in France.

At times it feels like it used to feel when I was in China. You arrived in Hong Kong and then caught up with the news that was filtered on the mainland.

Now you see things on social media and wonder whether it is true and the BBC or Sky News aren't covering it.

Something doesn't seem right, however you dress things up.

[Witton Park]

The main issue I find with Oracles posts are his evocations of Europe / Germany as aggressors which do little to endear the reader to any of his points valid or not. The EU are not the enemy, rather they are our trading partners, friends and rivals (in a positive way)

I voted remain and would do again because we have a special relationship both in terms of treaties and that of close neighbours. Britain’s position as an adult in international diplomacy has been eroded which will be a legacy that lives on for a long time.

@Dave M - a good list of points of where opinions are portrayed as fact.

"Aggressor" doesn't have to mean lining up troops on a border.

France illegally subsidising Air France back in the 90s, as found by the ECJ following a long and expensive action taken by BA and Lufthansa which was retrospectively signed off after the judgement by the Commission?

Footwear anti-dumping duty illegally applied (ECJ Judgement following test action by Clarks and Puma) and still being applied, not refunded. If they refunded the two winning litigants, there are several hundred more lining up behind that they'd also have to compensate running in to billions.

Two cases that I had direct interest in and shaped my opinions of the EU institutions.

I personally wouldn't use the word aggressor. I'd use words like corrupt, even frightening, when an organisation has the power to force through it's desired outcome EVEN when the court who's jurisdiction it operates under have found against.

Imagine if the UK Govt had lost at the Supreme Court, then quickly signed off a legal instrument to retrospectively allow them to stay prorogued.
I think such power would concern many.

And that's before we even consider some of the corporate problems such as the intentional fiddling of emissions figures to seek to gain a commercial advantage over your competitors.

It seems to have worked with VW Group currently = 1st biggest manufacture in the world (ironically with Toyota who also seem to have got away with a huge defect cover up that caused deaths) and other car manufacturers fallen by the wayside in the meantime, perhaps partially as a result of some of this illegal corporate behaviour which could quite easily be seen as aggressive business practise.