Brexit

[DrPatrickBarry]

But since then we have had:...

Sorry but that does not make sense. You could the say the same about any jurisdiction. Who would want the UK to go back to the laws they had 100 years ago? Things change the UK will change it's laws in the future as will the EU.
Think about it
Votes for Women,
Scottish Goverment,
Welsh Goverment,
Good Friday agreement
Mayors,
and no end of other major constitutional changes.
Remain IS a clearly defined position at this moment in time. If the EU want to make more changes to their constitution then it will be debated by Council of Ministers and the EU Parliment, to gain a consensus for the change.

[Witton Park]

Sorry but that does not make sense. You could the say the same about any jurisdiction. Who would want the UK to go back to the laws they had 90 years ago? Things change the UK will change it's laws in the future as will the EU.
Think about it
Scottish Goverment,
Welsh Goverment,
Good Friday agreement
Mayors,
and no end of other major constitutional changes.
Remain IS a clearly defined position at this moment in time. If the EU want to make more changes to their constitution then it will be debated by Council of Ministers and the EU Parliment, to gain a consensus for the change.

I do think about it Pat.

The Democratic element to the EU is just a crumb from a table. The MEPs, elected off party lists so we have no real link to them, have a role not too far away from that of the Lords here in the UK.

In addition, as our elected UK political parties were all pro EU since Labour and Kinnock, we have had no way to signal to those politicians to say "hang on here, we sort of like the concept of a trade area a common market, but it's going a bit too far now."

That changed with the warning shot fired at the last Euro Elections where UKIP were the biggest party with 26.6% of the vote. the biggest party.

But the elements you picked out have direct democratic links so they are constantly reviewed.

The Scottish Govt is voted for regularly, as is the Welsh Government, Mayors and you can add the Police Commissioners.
I don't agree with them all, but they were voted on and so got the nod. They could also be reversed by a future UK Government if it was elected on a policy of (say) getting rid of the elected Police Commissioners.


In terms of the Good Friday Agreement, I would defer to David Trimble on that.

[DrPatrickBarry]

In terms of the Good Friday Agreement, I would defer to David Trimble on that.

This one I have got to question, what does that mean?
The Good Friday agreement recieved three majorities
N.I Nationalists
N.I Unionists,
Eire.

What does he have to say? what does it matter?

[Muddy Retriever]

Sorry but that does not make sense. You could the say the same about any jurisdiction. Who would want the UK to go back to the laws they had 100 years ago? Things change the UK will change it's laws in the future as will the EU.

But those changes have been brought about by elected Governments, which we can get rid of every five years if we want. The Executive arm of the EU is the European Commission, which is unelected and we have no way of getting rid of the Commissioners.

[DrPatrickBarry]

we have no way of getting rid of the Commissioners.

The european parliment sacked the entire commision a few years ago, Neil Kinnock, was one of them. I believe Neil was one of the few that was relected to his post.

[Witton Park]

This one I have got to question, what does that mean?
The Good Friday agreement recieved three majorities
N.I Nationalists
N.I Unionists,
Eire.

What does he have to say? what does it matter?

The Good Friday Agreement is not affected by Brexit according to Mr Trimble.

[Witton Park]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/455002...iday-agreement

In fact there are many who say that Mrs May's deal breaches the GFA because it means that people of Northern Ireland would be taking laws and regulations without consent.

As long as the transition and backstop lasts, we have to align, we have to implement regs in the areas of EU competence.

Even after the backstop, due to the pre-prescribed matters in the WA it would be likely to be a permanent breach of the GFA.

[Muddy Retriever]

The european parliment sacked the entire commision a few years ago, Neil Kinnock, was one of them. I believe Neil was one of the few that was relected to his post.

Ministers of a Government are elected MP's that can be dismissed every five years by their constituents. They are therefore directly accountable to the people. European Commissioners aren't.

I knew that theoretically the European Parliament could dismiss commissioners but I wasn't aware they actually did it in practice. Have you got a link to the case you refer to and how often has it happened?

[DrPatrickBarry]

Looks like I was not quite right. Jan - March 1999.
The commision jumped before they were pushed after surviving an earlier treat to sack them.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...r-1046928.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/19...6/eu.politics1

A fundamental shift in the balance of power of the European Union's institutions has now taken place. The parliament, acting in the name of democratic accountability, has now ended the life of an unelected commission. This has never happened before and it amounts to the passing of Europe's ancien regime, and could presage the dawning of a genuine European democracy.

[Muddy Retriever]

Looks like I was not quite right. Jan - March 1999.
The commision jumped before they were pushed after surviving an earlier treat to sack them.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...r-1046928.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/19...6/eu.politics1

A fundamental shift in the balance of power of the European Union's institutions has now taken place. The parliament, acting in the name of democratic accountability, has now ended the life of an unelected commission. This has never happened before and it amounts to the passing of Europe's ancien regime, and could presage the dawning of a genuine European democracy.

So they've never actually done it? Once 20 years ago the commissioners resigned. Even if the Parliament occasionally did dismiss them, which they don't it wouldn't be the same as them being elected directly by the people in the same way ministers are as MP's.

Democracy this clearly is not.