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Thread: Brexit

  1. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel View Post
    Good point CL, I wouldn't. The difference is that remain is a very clearly defined option. Whereas leave means different things to different people. There are many leave voters who want to still have free trade with Europe, and many who don't.

    On your point to the Grump, there are lots of business people making many good points about why a no-deal Brexit is a bad thing. Maybe the politicians are listening to them.
    If the politicians are listening to some business concerns then they should relay those in a reasonable manner. But as 'The Grump' says they don't. No reasons, no explanations just 'we can't leave it'll be terrrrible.'


    That's why Remain loses the debate. It doesn't reveal it's true motives for wanting to remain,it just scaremongs. The referendum question was clear but of course Noel you being on the losing side wants to justify it with the implication 'you didn't know what you were voting for.'

  2. #492
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    WP has it in a nutshell.........

    "In addition, as our elected UK political parties were all pro EU since Labour and Kinnock, we have had no way to signal to those politicians to say "hang on here, we sort of like the concept of a trade area a common market, but it's going a bit too far now."

    So now we are where we are with still the majority of The Establishment doing their level best to reverse the result of the Vote. The furore around a "no deal" makes me think thats just what we should go for. The Establishment does not want it because it makes more work for them rather than having a signed off deal.
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  3. #493
    Master wheezing donkey's Avatar
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    I'm struggling to understand that Corbyn chappie. He won't discuss issues with May until the possibility of a "No Deal Brexit" is taken off the table. Surely if he and his party just supported the deal that May has already brokered with the EU, then the possibility of a "No Deal" would be sidelined?
    Or am I just a bit of a provincial bumpkin that's being too simplistic?
    Or is Corbyn just a taciturn old codger, being awkward for the sake of it, in a vain hope to earn himself some dubious points?
    I was a bit of an oddball until I was abducted by aliens; but I'm perfectly OK now!

  4. #494
    Master shaunaneto's Avatar
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    Corbyns sole objective is to get into power to deliver his personal ideology (he’s not alone there).

    So it is probably a calculated decision that it’ll see more votes to him or at least cost the Tories votes if May makes that choice not him.

    Doing what’s actually right for the country, like presenting a unified focused leadership to deliver a clear path ahead doesn’t really matter.

    Proper shower of ***** we have in Westminster. Mind you, we keep voting for them.

  5. #495
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheezing donkey View Post
    I'm struggling to understand that Corbyn chappie. He won't discuss issues with May until the possibility of a "No Deal Brexit" is taken off the table. Surely if he and his party just supported the deal that May has already brokered with the EU, then the possibility of a "No Deal" would be sidelined?
    Or am I just a bit of a provincial bumpkin that's being too simplistic?
    Or is Corbyn just a taciturn old codger, being awkward for the sake of it, in a vain hope to earn himself some dubious points?
    You are right. Could you imagine the Unions he is so closely linked to taking no deal of the table in a negotiation with an employer?
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
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  6. #496
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaunaneto View Post
    Proper shower of ***** we have in Westminster. Mind you, we keep voting for them.
    In their defense they were handed a poisoned chalice, with the four percent difference in the vote, and more importantly the vote giving no clear idea, or majority for any particular type of Brexit.

    Even as a remainer, if they vote had been a massive majority say 60/40, I could not complain with politicians taking that as a queue to go for the hardest possible Brexit.

  7. #497
    Master molehill's Avatar
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    One of the mainstays of democracy is compromise, currently we seem to have one but not the other.
    Corbyn is not helping matters.
    Don't roll with a pig in poo. You get covered in poo and the pig likes it.

  8. #498
    Moderator noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CL View Post
    The referendum question was clear but of course Noel you being on the losing side wants to justify it with the implication 'you didn't know what you were voting for.'
    That's an interesting point CL. And I agree on one level it was clear - leave or remain.

    I was saying it has caused division among those who voted to leave and among those who are trying to implement it, since there are different interpretations regarding how much people want to leave - just a bit, or completely.

    Do I assume correctly that you'd like to leave completely?

  9. #499
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel View Post
    how much people want to leave - just a bit, or completely.
    I wonder if the, Brexit voting, Sunderland Nissan workers, who's jobs depend on a seemless JIT supply chain with mainland europe are prepared to accept a hard brexit that may (I am not saying it will) endanger their jobs?

  10. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel View Post
    That's an interesting point CL. And I agree on one level it was clear - leave or remain.

    I was saying it has caused division among those who voted to leave and among those who are trying to implement it, since there are different interpretations regarding how much people want to leave - just a bit, or completely.
    I don't really think there is that division among people who actually voted Leave. The motto of the Leave campaign was "Take Back Control" and they talked about taking it in terms of laws, borders and money. The only way to achieve that is to leave both the Single Market and the Customs Union. At various parts of the campaign it was also expressly stated by both sides that this is what leaving would mean. So anybody who voted Leave and watched any part of the campaign could be under no illusions that this is what would happen.

    The fact that it hasn't is mainly because (as CL said) the negotiations have been handled overwhelmingly by Remainers. As for divisions about different types of Brexit e.g. Norway plus (Single Market & Customs Union), the advocates of these softer options never voted Leave in the first place and they want to remain as close to the EU as possible.

    Personally I think it would be better if we had negotiated a free trade deal with the EU. But given that we haven't the only logical approach in order to honour the result of the referendum is to leave without a deal and trade on WTO terms.

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