Brexit

[Stolly]

I can’t be bothered to read the oracles rants but, from a quick skim, he is talking pure bollocks 😊

[Wheeze]

Ok, if that is so it would help the discussion for you to succinctly identify the bollocky bits. So far, name calling and blank refutation seem to be the weapons of choice.
I really want to know if Oracle is spouting bollocks....because if he isn't, we have cause for concern.

[Oracle]

I agree with you Witton.
I was just pointing at what remainers often call a lie...

As I said, remainers exaggeration was so overstated (factors of 10!) that the electorate discounted the claims completely.
The irony is, If they had been more realistic they might have swung the vote.

Where the so called "leavers lies" have been proven true...

It wasn't

You see the ONS figure might well be the gross figure, but it doesn't count certain other financial transfers.

It doesn't count the money we send to cover the EHIC card / the treatment of EU nationals here that are unrecovered because the NHS is conditioned not to collect, unlike other EU health services.

It also doesn't count the Import duty. When goods clear customs here in the UK, around 20% is taken as an admin fee by the UK and the 80% goes to the EU.
As this duty is the EU's duty, it doesn't show as a transfer in the ONS figures. Only the 20% admin fee shows as an income.

Further many RoW goods are cleared at EU Ports of entry. So the EU gets more than just the duty from UK direct imports, but in this situation the EU port of clearance gets the 20% admin portion, so a 100% of RoW import duty on Imports destined for the UK via a continental port goes to the EU.

We also have money from the DfID that is passed to the EU.

Add them all up, it comes closer to £500m

[Witton Park]

The irony is, If they had been more realistic they might have swung the vote.

Or had they been able to give us some positives of membership, other than being able to sing cum-bay-ah around the campfire on International student exchanges, until campfires get banned that is

[Stolly]

Why only a second referendum will solve things - The Times https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...26f29db582c1ba

[Wheeze]

Ok. Seems a well reasoned argument although I take issue with the assertion that the referendum question was "hopelessly vague". It was anything but. Leave or remain. Nowt vague at all. Of course, the future course of politics AFTER a leave vote were genuinely unknowable. Anyone who claims to have known were spinning fairy tales.
But yes. Let's have a vote. But agree that only a meaningful majority can overturn the first result. No one wants another 51/49!

[DrPatrickBarry]

But yes. Let's have a vote. But agree that only a meaningful majority can overturn the first result. No one wants another 51/49!

She is living in a dream world, there is no coming back from this. What would happen if the treshold was set at 60% to overturn the first result and the vote remain was 53% It would be a very strange mandate to move forward with.

It will probably just have to go ahead and see what happens.

At least I can take great joy in the DUP own-goal.

[Oracle]

Why only a second referendum will solve things - The Times https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...26f29db582c1ba

Noted you could find not a single arguable point in my post.

Second referendum Solves nothing.
If the first referendum and election manifestos are not honoured, then a second one has no legitimacy.
And you “can’t keep voting again and again“
Ask speaker Bercow who said it. He won’t even allow a first vote on the most important vote parliament has held for a decade for fear his side will lose it, let alone a second,

So our answer to the EU on whether we accept, is “don’t know the speaker won’t allow it to vote.” Only wrecking amendments. Does Bercow know how much he has damaged the uk?

That idiot Angela smith agreed with the speaker that Bercows increasingly bent judgement was indeed a fundamental of democracy, then demanded a second referendum in direct contradiction.
Do these mps ever listen to themselves?

Bercow my view now must face criminal charges for malfeasance. I will help fund it.
Never again must one unnacountable man have such power, or be allowed to abuse it.

[Stagger]

The problem with the incessant remainer lies, is that they had the entire communications channels of government, aided by a partisan media and civil service to promote them which would cost a fabulous of money to duplicate.

Leave were always massively disadvantaged. Yet we notice it was leave that was challenged on campaign spending by an equally partisan electoral commission!

One day politicians will wise up. The element of truth in some of the remainer claims was so wildly exaggerated, that people disbelieved the claim completely.
If remain had been HONEST, they would have got more traction, perhaps enough to win. Remain was pathogenically dishonest and still is.


Yet all the leavers claims have one by one become true.

Our spending to EU is rapidly increasing, so whether or not the leave bus claim was 50 percent overstated, it is getting closer by the day - not least because our economy is doing better than theirs! so we end up paying more! So much for the cliff edge if we vote leave!

Our sovereignty is ebbing away in power grabs to brussels, and in total violation of Lisbon treaty on "subsidiarity", the EU army derided at the time as a "leave lie" has now been proven entirely true.

The EUs own information channels declare that 10 billion has been fraudulently wasted last year, so we can assume the real number is much higher(since EU has never been independently audited or honest, and sacks all whistleblowers) It is at least double that. So 2 bn of our 10 bn is going into EU fraud and dodgy deals. With no auditing the EU pigs have snouts firmly in the trough. And so on....

The gravy train from strasbourg to brussels still pours money down the toilet every day. The MEPs are treated like FIFA officials.The EU has the same morality as FIFA The amount of unnacounted expenses and chauffeur cars is a disgrace to those who pay for it.. They dont even pay proper tax. There is a special "EU tax rate" for all the EU pigs that have the snouts firmly in the EU trough.


There is still no way I can either amend or get amended legislation, or even sack those who decide legislation. There is no democracy whatsoever. The EU parliament is a sham. The only competence it had, to elect the next Juncker, was taken away this time!

The "turmoil" accompanying no deal was roundly disputed by none other than the man who runs calais docks! He says there will be teething troubles, but soon be back to normal. He is french, so not a leaver!

Then stollies claim, we need to be in the EU to trade with it. All the trade agreements with other countries prove we dont. The trade with EU by countries that dont have a trade deal, carry on regardless

The currency union is even closer to collapse than it was at the time we voted, and the devastation it has caused, is just as visible in youth employement and economic migration..


So leave got it spot on. Remainer claims have been disproven

The negative economic impact so far, is entirely remainers refusing to accept the vote, so sabotaging the way forward. We have left one bank of a river, remainer MPs refuse to go to the other side, or return.

Yet still remain, peddle the lies

I just proved you don’t need to be in EU to trade with it,and so did you: that is what a trade deal is. It is why EU does trade deals.

And yes, it would be better to have one, but certainly not at a price of 39 billion or 10 billion a year, when on balance of trade, we are buyers! “ Duh brain.”

In reality it is a chink in a set of high walls, to eus protection zone, that makes exports harder for those selling out. I’ve done it, have you?

China is not what it was. They are now increasingly GMP , so the standards arguments is also increasingly fallacious.what EU declares as standards are just deliberate trade barriers, Singapore is the best educated work force in the world. Which is why such as Dyson went there, other than to escape corbyn thefts of property.

And a trade deal is like a suit of clothes. In Trying to fit 27 bodies it fits all of them badly, none of them well.
And because 27 are sat round the table with minnows deciding the whole. the decisions are lowest common denominator and take forever to do. Like a company that takes 7 years to make deals, and has too large a bureaucracy Eu will go bust, as others more nimble that take better decisions quicker beat the titanic,


So now you have disproved all your own arguments!

A dam good FACTUAL post Oracle. Thank you.

If only the remainers would take note and argue with proven facts!!!

[Oracle]

A dam good FACTUAL post Oracle. Thank you.

If only the remainers would take note and argue with proven facts!!!

I suspect most of you remainers are not interested in what happens in the Eu parliament which is an expensive powerless joke, designed to pretend democracy. Even Juncker mocked it last year, much to verhofstadts annoyance.

There was a lot of ritual anger expressed about Thomas cook collapse, and the damage done to Eu businesses. It was pointed out by brexit party that the only reason uk government could not step into help is EU competition law. So EU reaped what they sowed, Farcical.