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Thread: Brexit

  1. #391
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    Why is it we don't need a hard border at the moment?
    Single market and customs union, you know the thing the UK want's to leave.

  2. #392
    Master Muddy Retriever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry View Post
    Single market and customs union, you know the thing the UK want's to leave.
    I've already answered that. We can be out of both and trading under WTO rules. Extra border infrastructure could be avoided by using electronic declarations, use of customs brokers and HMRC carrying out customs inspection at company premises. This is perfectly acceptable to the WTO - they have said so.

    Your objection was that this didn't get round the issue of smuggling. My question is why is that an issue if it isn't an issue now under current arrangements? Ireland and the UK have different excise rates on a number of things at present so there could be smuggling go on at the moment. Why don't we need a hard border now?

    By the way I noticed this article this morning from the Irish Independent, which suggests that some people in Ireland recognise that the backstop goes too far.

    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...-37622042.html

  3. #393
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Ok then, tell me in detail how the N.I/Eire can avoid avoid physical border infrastructure between the two countries when one is outside the customs union, when Norway/Sweeden who are both in the customs union require physical infastructure?

    Just read the article. Dan, like many people, knows it is a problem (me included), but also like many people does not provide a solution.

    It is so easy to criticize from the sidelines.

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    I've already answered that. We can be out of both and trading under WTO rules. Extra border infrastructure could be avoided by using electronic declarations, use of customs brokers and HMRC carrying out customs inspection at company premises. This is perfectly acceptable to the WTO - they have said so.

    Your objection was that this didn't get round the issue of smuggling. My question is why is that an issue if it isn't an issue now under current arrangements? Ireland and the UK have different excise rates on a number of things at present so there could be smuggling go on at the moment. Why don't we need a hard border now?

    By the way I noticed this article this morning from the Irish Independent, which suggests that some people in Ireland recognise that the backstop goes too far.

    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...-37622042.html
    I would suggest we can go farther with quarterly duty declarations just like we do with VAT.

    We can have a sensible de minimis level, which would take non VAT registered businesses and individuals out of the need to declare.
    USA has a $800 level currently, the EU one is 22 Euro.
    A de minimis level is a daily allowance. I have customers in the USA who order and keep below the level, so goods just ship and clear seamlessly.

    I've been involved with imports (and exports) since the 80s and I have never been present to hand over some dosh or sign a form at a border post.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  5. #395
    Master Muddy Retriever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry View Post
    Ok then, tell me in detail how the N.I/Eire can avoid avoid physical border infrastructure between the two countries when one is outside the customs union, when Norway/Sweeden who are both in the customs union require physical infastructure?
    I already have. The modern trend is for these transactions to be processed electronically. The article you allude to seems to be mainly be related to smuggling but as I keep saying we could just as easily have that now. Have a look at this article from July. First thing to say is it is from the website Brexit Central so clearly there is no doubt what it's stance is going to be. But it is a really good piece, which I think explains clearly how the issue can be overcome. It makes the point that we have divergence now, which has not been a threat to the peace process so why should it in the future. It also notes that the position of the Irish Government suddenly changed. What wasn't an issue before suddenly became a problem.

    https://brexitcentral.com/avoid-hard...single-market/

  6. #396
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Smuggling within the common market/customs union is an issue of revenue loss and it is down to the Irish/N.I authorities to manage that, which the decision has been to use intelligence to try to crack down on the most serious offenders.

    But once N.I leaves the common market/customs union, that is a whole different ball game. Any products say food or medicines has to conform to EU standards. Anything produced in the EU can be inspected by EU verified inspectors so it is allowed to travel freely around the EU.

    Now the UK wants to "take back control", so the EU has to take it on trust when the UK says their products meet EU standards. As you say they will sort that out so company X will be able to export product Y into the EU. At the ports they can clear that product to allow it to pass through with little or no delay.

    Now how do you do that with a random truck driving across the N.I land border?
    Now this is an EU matter, as the integerity of the Single Market comes into play, and the tolorance of a certain amount of illegeal activity is no longer acceptable

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