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Thread: Brexit

  1. #621
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    it was foolish of Fox to say it would be the "easiest deal in history".
    How was it foolish? That amoung many related questionably statements (NHS dividend, etc) achieved the desired result. It was a brilliant statement.

  2. #622
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    Back to Brexit and it was foolish of Fox to say it would be the "easiest deal in history". He made it on the basis that the UK and EU started from a position of regulatory equivalence. But it takes two to tango and clearly the EU desires to punish the UK and to try to ensure that Brexit is a failure. They obviously want to deter others from doing the same thing. But that doesn't mean that we are wrong to exit the EU. To me the fact that the only way they think they can keep their members is to administer punishment beatings shows that it can't be much of a club in the first place.
    I don't think it was foolish and note he said "should" but is almost always quoting as saying "would". That one letter is quite significant.

    Here is the quote from the BBC website following the Today programme where he said this.

    "Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same, the international trade secretary has said.
    Liam Fox is to set out his vision of the UK's trading relationship with the rest of the world after Brexit.
    "The only reason we wouldn't come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics," Dr Fox told the Today programme."

    Taken in full, it is bang on and it is politics that has got in the way.

    By the way, I don't like Fox, never have.

    If you go back to Mrs May's Lancaster House speech, 2 months before Article 50 was invoked, it set out a comprehensive FTA, outside the Single Market, Outside the Customs Union, but with as close cooperation as possible to keep trade frictions as low as possible between UK and EU.

    The UK Politicians have got in the way, whether the 80% remain cabinet, the 80% remain commons, the nearer 90% remain lords and the pro-Remain DEXU Select Committee.


    The EU politicians have got in the way - of course they want to extract everything they can and have taken advantage of mistakes made by Mrs May.
    Best example is refusing to agree an outlined future trading position and expecting us to make commitments on the NI border before we knew what the likely end trading terms would be. Mrs May caved in when she agreed the December 2017 joint declaration.

    But Fox was right, it should have been easier, but politics has got in the way.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  3. #623
    Master Muddy Retriever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry View Post
    How was it foolish? That amoung many related questionably statements (NHS dividend, etc) achieved the desired result. It was a brilliant statement.
    Well as WP has pointed out, he has actually been misquoted. I stand corrected. Even I'm starting to fall for the misinformation from remainers!

    This from the Guradian
    Speaking to BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Thursday, the international trade secretary said: “The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.

    “We are already beginning with zero tariffs, and we are already beginning at the point of maximal regulatory equivalence, as it is called. In other words, our rules and our laws are exactly the same.”

    However, he went on to concede that securing a deal would probably not be easy in practice. “The only reason that we wouldn’t come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics,” Fox said.



    Sorry to disappoint you Pat.

  4. #624
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    I despise The Independent, but some of what it says is true.

    It is not hard to find questionable brexiteer (and remainer) claims durning the referendum
    https://www.independent.co.uk/infact...-a8113381.html


    I see they have fixed the Firefox post/edit issue, thanks to whoever
    Last edited by DrPatrickBarry; 12-02-2019 at 03:58 PM.

  5. #625
    Master Wheeze's Avatar
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    Vested interest, political ambition obscuring notion of service, arrogance and manipulation of the media.
    Shameful but inevitable. Brussels and London equally to blame!
    What are we 'ordinary' voters to make of it all?
    Once (if!) we have freed ourselves from the unelected upper chamber of European Politics, we shall have set about our own!
    I am Kuno....

  6. #626
    Senior Member Dave_Mole's Avatar
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    can you let us know what exactly you mean by the "unelected upper chamber of European Politics"?
    ....it's all downhill from here.

  7. #627
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Mole View Post
    can you let us know what exactly you mean by the "unelected upper chamber of European Politics"?
    I will answer that for you, a lot of people have a problem with the European Commission becasue they are nominated rather than elected. In many ways that group of people are akin to the most senior levels of the UK Civil Service. In the UK the (unelected) Civil Service job is to enact the decisions of the (elected) cabinate. In the EU the (unelected) commision enacts the decisions of the (elected) Council of Ministers and (elected) European Parliment.

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsh...ean-commission

    As a rule, the Commission has a monopoly on the initiative in EU law-making (Article 17(2) TEU). It draws up proposed acts to be adopted by the two decision-making institutions, Parliament and the Council.

    Despite the final decision on laws lies with the two elected bodies it has to be said that even among europhiles within the European Parliment there are complaints that the Commision has too much power.
    Last edited by DrPatrickBarry; 15-02-2019 at 08:35 AM.

  8. #628
    Senior Member Dave_Mole's Avatar
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    OK, so the EU Commission is made up of members of the EU, selected from MEPs, who are elected. The head is elected by the European Parliment. Which is made up of elected MEPs. I'm still struggling to see the "unelected" element here, regardless of their power(s). I also struggle to see valid criticim of decomcratic process from a country with an entirely unelected upper house, with a parliment ultimately ruled over by a monarch. And how removing ourselves from a process with which we will have to comply is somehow "freeing".

    Ah, well. Back to the fells, then
    ....it's all downhill from here.

  9. #629
    Master Stagger's Avatar
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    Only 43 days to go.

    PM defeat AGAIN.

    Ha ha ha getting interesting now.

  10. #630
    Master JohnK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    Only 43 days to go.

    PM defeat AGAIN.

    Ha ha ha getting interesting now.
    I wish it was a more boring topic I can`t imagine.
    The older I get the Faster I was

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