By Jove I fully agree with that last sentence Grump.
Very well put Sir.
By Jove I fully agree with that last sentence Grump.
Very well put Sir.
I join with Dave and RichA in expressing discomfort with Oracles repeated allegories of previous politico-military machinations of Germany. It is starting to feel like a drip feed of far right poison. This, for me, is undermining the very cogent, and as far as I can see, well informed warning points he makes about the rise of the imperialistic side of the European experiment. It is that sense of nagging disquiet that he has added flesh to. But I am increasingly of the view that I should try to put aside his arguments because I think they are tainted. I do not get this sense from any other of the protagonists for the leave view.
What I would really wish for now, after all this time, is a referendum to repeal our accession to the Treaty of Maastrict. What we had before then...a Common Market... seemed a much better fit for our geopolitical relationship with Continental Europe.
Simon Blease
Monmouth
I find it uncomfortable wheeze.
But why does a trading club need an army that aspires to be a “ player on the world stage”?
What kind of thinking motivates that?
When the EU decided to force Northern Ireland under its law for eternity,with no escape ever, called the backstop, how can any benign organisation even consider stealing a nations sovereignty? How is that not annexation? The soviets have done the same many times.
It is against all that democratic nations stand for. The EU demanded removal of NI sovereignty and right to self determination ( also breaching good Friday, they laughably said they wanted to uphold)
The question is not why we refused , why did EU ever consider it acceptable to ask?
What thinking allowed them to consider it?
It is a lot more serious and dark question than it seems at first sight.
When Verhofstadt states he aspires to “ death of nation states” , no optouts, no vetos. What does it say about that vision of empire?
Others can make up their own mind.
But recognise the Soviet Union said and did very similar things.
Mole seems fixated on nazis, which I do not. The uSSR is another comparable fascist empire ( in the context I use the word fascist) so use that comparison if it makes you feel better. ( and it’s currency union collapsed. The rouble zone. As ALL currency unions always do in dislike economies But that’s another story)
It is not the trading club we joined.
eU moved away from us.
It has ignored the Lisbon treaty on subsidiarity, and every day wants to steal more powers from the states,not devolve them. When that includes a battle ready army of 60000 deployable troops, we all have a right to worry.
Originally Posted by Wheeze
Last edited by Oracle; 23-10-2019 at 08:05 PM.
Let us come together to agree one thing.
What would you all like to see happen on nov 5th!
( you might get arrested for voicing it)
it doesn't and has no plans to have one.why does a trading club need an army
negotiated by none other than Mrs May.When the EU decided to force Northern Ireland under its law for eternity, with no escape ever, called the backstop
because that's not what they're doing.how can any benign organisation even consider stealing a nations sovereignty?
The soviets have done the same many times.are we now calling the EU communist? I thought they were fascist?But recognise the Soviet Union said and did very similar things
OH, I see!The uSSR is another comparable fascist empire
You're a GENIUS! The USSR are now fascists. SOMEONE SEEMS OBSESSED WITH THIS.
and it's not me.
No matter how you want to define "fascist", and no matter how many times you repeat the word, it doesn't make the EU actually fascist. It does, however, make you look more and more desperate.
....it's all downhill from here.
You have fixated on one definition of fascist which is ultranationalist.
It is not the only one.
I quoted the definition I use “ authoritarian, intolerant of any dissent”
Both nazi and ussr were shades of authoritarian socialist empire builders , not the opposites you seem to believe.
If it makes you feel better use soviet analogy.
And may did not negotiate the backstop, It was imposed. And EU refused to move on it.
It was also why the uk refused to accept, despite may, and still EU refused to negotiate it.
The points I made all stand.
Why did EU even consider eternal theft of NI sovereignty?
How can any empire that claims to be democratic ever consider it?
Not why did Britain refuse, what thinking led to them demanding it?
But cool it Dave.
All empires collapse because of excesses born of power craze.
Increasingly I see excesses in the EU
Last edited by Oracle; 23-10-2019 at 09:00 PM.
You are really enjoying this. It's like a written version of James O'Brien's brexit calls on LBC.
This from the UK Defence Journal.
The EU has also established Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) a strategy which aims to “jointly develop defence capabilities and make them available for EU military operations” which the UK has chosen not to participate in.”
Sounds like an army by proxy to me. What sort of "EU military operations " do they envisage?
Wikipedia contains a useful list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perman...ation#Projects
It is the rhetoric that scares me.
Another Phrase from borell.
The European Union “has to learn to use the language of power.”
In a context of The history of Europe - that should scare people. It scares me.
I am not making it up.
Der Leyen is less combative ( an army of Europeans , not European army, which is what Dave mole alludes) she is so incompetent Germany could not wait to get rid of her: she allowed an army with no working guns! Airforce with no working planes!
But that is not macrons view who says “ a real European army”
These guys are megalomaniacs.
Last edited by Oracle; 23-10-2019 at 10:39 PM.
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