Single market and customs union, you know the thing the UK want's to leave.Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
Single market and customs union, you know the thing the UK want's to leave.
I've already answered that. We can be out of both and trading under WTO rules. Extra border infrastructure could be avoided by using electronic declarations, use of customs brokers and HMRC carrying out customs inspection at company premises. This is perfectly acceptable to the WTO - they have said so.
Your objection was that this didn't get round the issue of smuggling. My question is why is that an issue if it isn't an issue now under current arrangements? Ireland and the UK have different excise rates on a number of things at present so there could be smuggling go on at the moment. Why don't we need a hard border now?
By the way I noticed this article this morning from the Irish Independent, which suggests that some people in Ireland recognise that the backstop goes too far.
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...-37622042.html
Ok then, tell me in detail how the N.I/Eire can avoid avoid physical border infrastructure between the two countries when one is outside the customs union, when Norway/Sweeden who are both in the customs union require physical infastructure?
Just read the article. Dan, like many people, knows it is a problem (me included), but also like many people does not provide a solution.
It is so easy to criticize from the sidelines.
I would suggest we can go farther with quarterly duty declarations just like we do with VAT.
We can have a sensible de minimis level, which would take non VAT registered businesses and individuals out of the need to declare.
USA has a $800 level currently, the EU one is 22 Euro.
A de minimis level is a daily allowance. I have customers in the USA who order and keep below the level, so goods just ship and clear seamlessly.
I've been involved with imports (and exports) since the 80s and I have never been present to hand over some dosh or sign a form at a border post.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
I already have. The modern trend is for these transactions to be processed electronically. The article you allude to seems to be mainly be related to smuggling but as I keep saying we could just as easily have that now. Have a look at this article from July. First thing to say is it is from the website Brexit Central so clearly there is no doubt what it's stance is going to be. But it is a really good piece, which I think explains clearly how the issue can be overcome. It makes the point that we have divergence now, which has not been a threat to the peace process so why should it in the future. It also notes that the position of the Irish Government suddenly changed. What wasn't an issue before suddenly became a problem.
https://brexitcentral.com/avoid-hard...single-market/
Smuggling within the common market/customs union is an issue of revenue loss and it is down to the Irish/N.I authorities to manage that, which the decision has been to use intelligence to try to crack down on the most serious offenders.
But once N.I leaves the common market/customs union, that is a whole different ball game. Any products say food or medicines has to conform to EU standards. Anything produced in the EU can be inspected by EU verified inspectors so it is allowed to travel freely around the EU.
Now the UK wants to "take back control", so the EU has to take it on trust when the UK says their products meet EU standards. As you say they will sort that out so company X will be able to export product Y into the EU. At the ports they can clear that product to allow it to pass through with little or no delay.
Now how do you do that with a random truck driving across the N.I land border?
Now this is an EU matter, as the integerity of the Single Market comes into play, and the tolorance of a certain amount of illegeal activity is no longer acceptable
And yet before Leo Varadkar became premier this maximalist, ultra-legalistic approach was not being taken. Under Enda Kenny UK and Irish civil servants were examining Authorised Economic Operator (AEO) and trusted trader schemes to cope with cross-border trade flows. In May 2017 Niall Cody the chairman of Ireland's Revenue Commissions said he was "practically 100% certain" that there would be no need for additional border posts. This approach all changed under Varadkar who immediately disbanded the working groups.
So do you think that in the event of a no-deal Brexit, Ireland will put up new border posts? In fact given that the possibility of no-deal is now more likely than before, shouldn't they be making preparations to do so?
Interesting, I googled Niall Cody and found the article you probably referenced for your comment.
But then in other search results his departement said the complete opposite.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-irish-report
But just think about a completly open border. A UK company imports some dodgy foodstuffs from Brazil for example, into Liverpool sends it across to Belfast and then by truck down to Dublin, where it can be distributed throughout the EU, without any checks. The EU would have to rely on on a 3rd country to ensure that products entering their jurisdiction meet their standards.
In reverse would the UK allow that?
Why should the EU?
If ireland does not enforce the single market border then Ireland itself would be kicked out.
All your comments about "Trusted Trader" works fine at ports.
As I said earlier a truck arrives at a port and if everything checkout he is allowed to board the boat.
A truck arrives at a N.I border crossing and a camera, (that has not had a visit from a dissentient angle grinder) reads the number plate and if all checks out he continues on his journey and if it does not check out he continues on his journey.
Never mind that there are 275 crossing points, it would be impossible to police.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40949424
Last edited by DrPatrickBarry; 17-12-2018 at 10:11 AM.
According to this article the leaked report you refer to related to their thinking in 2016 but their views had moved on
https://capx.co/185884-2/
It states:
"But this was based on the Revenue’s initial thinking in 2016, that was discarded as the possibilities of the EU’s modernised customs procedures became more clearly understood. The Guardian reported the RTÉ story, but did not mention that the Irish Revenue Chairman Niall Cody said as far back as May that the authority’s thinking had moved on and they were not looking at sites for customs posts, as technological fixes and checks away from the border would suffice. Indeed, RTÉ reported that Mr Cody was “almost 100 per cent certain” there would be no need for border posts."
Mind you the author was wrong with is his prediction that Leo Varadkar would become more accommodating.
With regard to your doggy foodstuffs example, do you think the UK will have no standards of its own? They may even become tougher after Brexit such as banning the exports of live animals. In any case the UK and EU start from a position of regulatory equivalence. The Eu already has agreements with Canada and New Zealand based on mutual recognition of standards. Why couldn't it do that with the UK?
Here you go. Confirmation that the report related to 2016, was no longer the Revenue's view and was superseded in May 2017.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/...sh-customs.pdf
Wonder why the Guardian didn't report that?
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