Brexit

[Muddy Retriever]

Now that people actually have an idea of what brexit will look like, as opposed to the fantasy that was peddled during the referendum, what is wrong with asking them again?

Suppose Remain had won, would you have been asking for another referendum after two and a half years if there were some things about EU membership we didn't like? If we vote to Remain this time do we go through it all again in a few years time? Let's be honest the people behind the calls for a second vote never accepted the result of the referendum in the first place so the idea that they are only calling it because now we know more of what Brexit entails is risible.

I think it was very clear what Brexit would look like. The Leave campaign was about taking back control of our laws, borders and money. This means leaving the Single Market and Currency Union. This is still possible, the only problem is that the Government and Parliament are not enacting the result of the referendum.

To demand a new referendum when the vote to leave hasn't even been implemented yet is ridiculous. I agree with the latter part of your comment. Let's wait a generation as was done last time. Once Brexit has been tried, if people want to re-enter the EU at that point then so be it.

[DrPatrickBarry]

But what do you think about the French and Dutch referendums of 2005?

If I am being perfectly honest, I though it was an excellent piece of political work. The fact that nobody is screeming about Lisbon would seem to confirm that.

[DrPatrickBarry]

Suppose Remain had won, would you have been asking for another referendum after two and a half years

Maybe you should have read/quoted another piece of my post.
I am not convienced - this is one thing we can agree on.

But even as a remainer but I am not convienced by the people's vote, because even if brexit was reversed, no way would the UK become a happy member of the EU. It might be better to let it go ahead, and in a generation's time, when they realize what a horrible mistake it was the UK can revisit the decision again.

[Muddy Retriever]

If I am being perfectly honest, I though it was an excellent piece of political work. The fact that nobody is screeming about Lisbon would seem to confirm that.

What is excellent about it?

The Treaty was a continuation of the centralising trend away form the nation state. Personally I think that is undemocratic particularly when you consider that the EU's Executive is the European Commission, whose members are unelected and can't be removed.

But whether you think it is good or bad is not really the issue, you didn't answer the question. Was it right that the results of the French and Dutch referendums were ignored?

[Muddy Retriever]

Maybe you should have read/quoted another piece of my post.

I didn't quote it but I referred to it and said I agreed.

[Witton Park]

Ireland, on the other hand, gained guarantees concerning its military neutrality with the Seville Declaration after the Nice referendum, and on the Irish commissioner, competency over tax rates, abortion, neutrality, and workers’ rights after the Lisbon referendum."

Good luck with the Tax issue. It looks like those commitments made a decade ago might well be disappearing, especially once the UK leaves, one of the main defenders of the creeping EU influence in to domestic tax affairs of member states.

[noel]

So... conservative leadership election. What do people think will happen?

I'll go for Teresa May surviving but not by much, but soldiering on anyway saying "now's not the time for change, we need to get my plan approved".

[DrPatrickBarry]

I'll go for Teresa May surviving

I would have thought that was a given, becasue nither a Brexitier or a Remainer could win.

[Graham Breeze]

I'll go for Teresa May surviving but not by much.

When things were better managed all the 48+ who signed a letter of "no confidence" would have been executed...which approach would have eliminated politicking and concentrated minds on the qualities the traitors were rejecting: integrity, tenacity, loyalty, stamina, intelligence, stateswomanship,...

[DrPatrickBarry]

But whether you think it is good or bad is not really the issue, you didn't answer the question. Was it right that the results of the French and Dutch referendums were ignored?

To answer that question, I would have to have a deep understanding of what is in the treaty, before I could make an informed decision about wheather getting it in "via the back door" is the right thing or not. Just because the people said something it does not mean it is right.

In fact that is one of my grips. I am a lot of a lefty when it come to health/social care/education. But all of these services are struggling due to lack of monies. I would love to have a goverment with the balls to significantly increase taxes, but any goverment that put that in their manifesto would get hammered, becasue we the population are selfish. We would prefer to have a nice car/holiday/house than pay for some family with a severly disabled child.

Maybe if a lot more people had really understood the pros/cons of EU membership, how fragile the peace is in N.I. and more importantly, what sort of trade deal is realistic, the country would not be in the chaos it is in now.