Brexit

[Muddy Retriever]

In about 500 years when the UK can bring itself to have another referendum, on whatever topic (Scottish Independence aside), maybe they will first identify clearly what the aim is and much more importantly how they will get there BEFORE asking the people if they should proceed.

500 years? That's a joke, at the moment some people can't go three.

What's the point of having another referendum when the result of the first one hasn't been respected and enacted? Why not leave and then in a number of years time if people think Brexit hasn't worked out a referendum could be held on whether to apply to rejoin.

It's total hogwash so say it wasn't clear what the Leave camp wanted to achieve. It couldn't have been clearer in the referendum, take back control of our laws, borders and money. That means leaving the single market and customs union. By all means if the EU had wanted to agree a mutually beneficial free trade deal that would have been good. For the moment they are only interested in keeping us in vassalage so we should leave without a deal.

Those campaigning for a second referendum also want to have only May's terrible deal and Remain on the ballot paper - exuding no deal. Talk about Hobson's choice! Far more leave voters favour leaving without a deal than May's agreement. So not only do these campaigners not respect the result of the first referendum they want to rig the question in a second one.

[Muddy Retriever]

It is becasue of the made-up issue with the EU border on the Island of Ireland, where magic cameras can read number plates from that they can identify if foodstuffs meet EU standards and correct tarifs have been paid. And if this is not the case then the magic cameras erect a force field to stop said vehicle from progressing across the border.

And all that is dependent on said magic camers not being vandalised by the local republicians.

Why did the Irish Revenue Commissioners Chairman Niall Cody say in 2017 they were not looking at sites for customs posts, as technological fixes and checks away from the border would suffice? He said he was “almost 100 per cent certain” there would be no need for border posts."

[Stolly]

I don't think here will be civil unrest or anything like that... but a referendum billed as a 'once in a lifetime' chance to decide our future in the EU, seems incomprehensible that it could be overturned 3 years later. Then what happens.... best out of three...???

This best of three standard answer is balderdash in the circumstances but you’ve highlighted the problem with referendums full stop. They give an indication of views at one point in time but aren’t then called and checked regularly (unlike voting for MPs). It’s often quoted nowadays but Germany voted by referendum to end parliamentary democracy and appont Hitler as a dictator in 1933. Not the best of decisions.

More to the point all polls now point to remain being the will of the people as to a certain extent does the march at the weekend and the petition. No political party should really want to force through something voted for almost 3 years ago that no longer applies. That’s a guaranteed vote loser.

As for a no deal vs remain referendum MR, I’d be well happy to vote in that

[Witton Park]

This best of three standard answer is balderdash in the circumstances but you’ve highlighted the problem with referendums full stop. They give an indication of views at one point in time but aren’t then called and checked regularly (unlike voting for MPs). It’s often quoted nowadays but Germany voted to end parliamentary democracy and appont Hitler as a dictator in 1933. Not the best of decisions.

More to the point all polls now point to remain being the will of the people as to a certain extent does the march at the weekend and the petition. No political party should really want to force through something voted for almost 3 years ago that no longer applies. That’s a guaranteed vote loser.

As for a no deal vs remain referendum MR, I’d be well happy to vote in that

On the polls, John Curtis - seen as the most eminent pollster was on TV last week saying it's too close to call, with poll averages around 2-3% ahead for remain, which is in line with the polling pre referendum.

You can also look at polling published in the last 48 hours, Comres I think, that shows leaving without signing the WA is now the preferred option and that was also in an earlier ICM poll.


and we already had a no deal - remain referendum and you lost, and haven't stopped moaning about it since

[Travs]

So 'remain' win a 2nd referendum (in my view this is unlikely... at best it's a 50/50 chance)… what happens then. Do we forget the result of the first referendum?

What happens in 3 years time when (purely theoretically) there is another groundswell to leave the EU. Do we go through it again? Or do the remain 'winners' say no the people spoke three years ago.

The votes were cast. If we go back on the referendum, in my view, it's opening up one heck of a s**t-storm for the future...

Wayne summed it up best in Auf Weidersehen Pet.... "so everybody gets what nobody wants... that's democracy"

[Witton Park]

Interesting in the Commons just now.

The Leader of the House issued a statement about the Statutory Instrument required to align us now with the 2 new dates of 12th April and 22nd May.

The EU has put these dates forward and May agreed them so they are a matter of law. The Commons has to agree the SM to bring our law in to line with the decision.

But the key point was that the 12th April is the new leaving date.

The 22nd May is the leaving date only if the Commons approve the WA by the 29th March ie Friday night.

The Commons aren't sitting Friday.

The MPs have control of the programme tomorrow for their indicative votes.

Looks like a shit or bust meaningful vote 3 on Thursday.

If the WA isn't passed Thursday we leave on April 12th under International Law - under what is commonly referred to as "no deal" scenario.

[DrPatrickBarry]

Why did the Irish Revenue Commissioners Chairman Niall Cody say in 2017 they were not looking at sites for customs posts, as technological fixes and checks away from the border would suffice? He said he was “almost 100 per cent certain” there would be no need for border posts."

Here is a more recent article saying the same thing.
https://www.thejournal.ie/revenue-pr...55703-Jan2019/
I wonder if his "Plan" has been OKed by the EU, and if so why the backstop?

[Witton Park]

and if so why the backstop?

Politics DrPat

[noel]

On the polls, John Curtis

I think you mean John Curtice, to distinguish him from my dad.

[Stolly]

Talking of John Curtice “There’s seemingly room for debate about whether leaving the EU is still the ‘will’ of the majority of voters in the U.K.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...996.html%3famp