One really has to question the accouracy of these polls. Look at this one from April 4th.Originally Posted by Witton Park
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...no-deal-brexit
One really has to question the accouracy of these polls. Look at this one from April 4th.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...no-deal-brexit
The accuracy of which? You are making the same mistake our politicians are if you consider the polls related:One really has to question the accouracy of these polls. Look at this one from April 4th.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...no-deal-brexit
Which is to consider the philosophically / logically bankrupt evaluation of an option in an absolute sense ( so the above poll is totally meaningless) regardless of whether there are other alternatives. That is clearly not the same as whether it is the best choice of limited options. Reductio ad absurdum, if it is the only option there is it can get 1 percent approval in absolute terms, but 99 percent as the way we should go. Like going to war in 39. 1% wish to do it so would label it a bad outcome. 99% agree with the necessity. Sad we have to restrain europe again from its own stupidity 70 years later. They never learn.
So it is not surprising that when confronted with other choices, "no deal" which may not be preferred in an ideal world, in relative terms wins hands down. Except with politicians who are stupid enough to vote to not no deal. Clearly they have limited IQ or they are trying to force remain.
And I can confirm ERG would rather not no deal. But when confronted with an EU that refuses to negotiate on any matter of substance, intent on humiliation not dealing, and the reality of the lack of other alternatives, the backstop (and other insidious terms in barniers deal) remain , customs union (a worse form of remain) , or extending the purgatory for no other reason than MPs are too chicken to do anything else. No deal wins, as the other poll says.
The two are not incompatible.
All of us would rather EU negotiated in good faith. But the fact that they won't and they never have done so, is why we must leave. So no deal it is. Barnier decided no deal with his ridiculous negotiation stance.
Last edited by Oracle; 09-04-2019 at 05:55 PM.
You may be right, but will it be no deal or no Brexit?
Those are, indeed the only realistic options. Ooooh, decisions, decisions! OH, there is a 3rd way....prevarication!
Simon Blease
Monmouth
Why would you want to remain a member of a club that treats partners like that? Coming to which they way EU treats its own members is despicable.
I hope that sooner or later EU will push even the most ardent remainers too hard, and the terms will be unnacceptable even for them. But with these muppets of MPs saying "no to no deal" which by definition implies they will accept anything, I think remaining on much worse terms is likely. Like just being in customs union.
I would prefer they withdrew A50 and vetoed everything. But that takes guts our politicians do not have. Maggie would have shown them...
Last edited by Oracle; 09-04-2019 at 06:07 PM.
There is a 3rd option; no deal yet.
Barnier says there will be no negotiations if we leave without a deal unless we pay the £39B and sort out the NI Border.
But we have a new commission and new Parliament. I think Junker, Verhofstadt and Tusk all go (if you know different please correct me)
and a new commission will not have to lose face by changing tack.
Regardless, I'd leave, show how we can handle the NI border without any new infrastructure and sit on the £39b until they come back to the table, which I doubt would go beyond the end of Summer.
Richard Taylor
"William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
Sid Waddell
EU are now proposing a year extension which as terms demand that neither the withdrawal agreement nor the future arrangement can be negotiated, the latter in clear violation of article 50
So what is the purpose of dragging it out, since they demand we agree that nothing can change? You could not make it up. Even the most ardent remainer must see the EU are deliberately making it fail, as they have always done.
Last edited by Oracle; 09-04-2019 at 07:27 PM.
Whether you want to be a member or not (and I acknowledge most people when asked last time said they don't want to be), there is a majority in the country and in parliament that don't want no deal. So of the remaining options:
Barnier-May deal: no majority
No deal: no majority
No Brexit: I doubt it, but it's still a possibility.
My money's still on a last-minute fudge.
Maybe we'll become a nation in a permanent state of limbo - too complicated to resolve and trapped between dead-end non-options. There's a cheery thought for you
That was sarcasm WP
Not convinced. How can it be fudged? Barnier dug his heels in. He Refuses to negotiate either WA or future arrangement. So short of capitulation they will run out of road, since nothing can happen to resolve it.
EU businesses need certainty and Barnier gives them cowsh!t instead. He Won't even talk about it. His arrogance and hubris will sink the union.
I think the consequence of populist EU elections on the perception of financial risk in EU will take over the narrative. With bond rate hikes that will start an unstoppable chain of events leading to banking collapses, bail ins, the exit of Italy from the euro and ultimately break up of the union. Trouble is British banks lend disproportionately to other banks, not businesses and so are over exposed. It will not be pretty. The ECB has largely run out of fire power to act in any legal way. If the EU relaxes fiscal discipline the ending will be the same, as it was in the last failed union, Elsewhere in the EU both open borders and judicial issues are already shaking the union. Whilst such as Romania are in a desparate straights because of brain drains, forced by the faulty euro structure.
Germany seemingly doesn't care for as long as their fourth reich can extort money from the rest. Their taxpayers will start to care when their creditors collapse, which is the problem when you lend others increading heaps of money to buy your stuff, leaving them over enddebted. Mr German taxpayer is staring a 2 trillion loss in the face which is half of their median wealth, But nobody told them yet.
It won't end well.
Whether you want to be a member or not (and I acknowledge most people when asked last time said they don't want to be), there is a majority in the country and in parliament that don't want no deal. So of the remaining options:
Barnier-May deal: no majority
No deal: no majority
No Brexit: I doubt it, but it's still a possibility.
My money's still on a last-minute fudge.
Maybe we'll become a nation in a permanent state of limbo - too complicated to resolve and trapped between dead-end non-options. There's a cheery thought for you
That was sarcasm WP
Last edited by Oracle; 09-04-2019 at 11:33 PM.
An observation: Barnier is an agent. He was appointed to do a job by his masters and presumably is achieving what they want. Of course it suits them for him to be demonized by the UK but he (presumably) isn't a loose cannon or Merkel et al would have reigned him in.
"...as dry as the Atacama desert".
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