And yet here you are, peddling information which is misleading, false or plain wrong.
And here you are comparing the EU to Nazis and trying to divert attention from it when called out on it.
And yet here you are, peddling information which is misleading, false or plain wrong.
And here you are comparing the EU to Nazis and trying to divert attention from it when called out on it.
....it's all downhill from here.
You used the word Nazi not me. I used the word reich which simply means empire.Originally Posted by Dave_Mole
I proved the case that there is a massive flood of money back to Germany at the expense of other nations , which is obviously unsustainable and has disastrous consequences for some of them. If you don't understand the graphs I gave , then study it before criticise the messenger. As primer read the now several year old book euro trap by Werner sim. It has got worse since then.
There is nothing misleading in those graphs,or the historic fact that all currency unions collapse. So far you have failed to challenge a word I said, as even a distortion ,so you have no basis to call it wrong.
Last edited by Oracle; 14-04-2019 at 09:33 AM.
Oracle, you seem to have completely missed Dave Mole's point.
There's nothing wrong with pointing out the problems facing some Southern European countries. There's nothing even wrong with blaming the problems on Germany, if you provide evidence (although evidence can sometimes be hard to fins amid your hyperbole). What is wrong is using gratuitously offensive language like "fourth reich", which is not only insulting to present-day Germans, but also trivialises what the Third Reich did (and it's no good pleading that you didn't use the word "Nazi", everyone knows what you were referring to).
Perhaps if you moderated your language people might bother to look at your graphs and other references.
In his lifetime he suffered from unreality, as do so many Englishmen.
Jorge Luis Borges
an example
your "data" on European youth unemployment:
https://www.statista.com/chart/1524/...ing-in-europe/
is from 2013.
The current data (from the same website):
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-eu-countries/
shows that youth unemployment is actually improving. In Greece it's less than half what it was and in all of the other countries in the EU it is falling.
So: misleading and wrong.
I could go on, but I have fells to run on.
Oh, and it's not just using the word "reich". The imagery in the rest of that sentence was also offensive, for the reasons anthonykay has pointed out. It's a dogwhistle and you know it.
....it's all downhill from here.
I don't think it is possible to have a sensible discussion with him. Hard to see where this level of hatred has come from.
The people are protesting in Romania because the government tried to bring in a law giving them immunity from prosecution for corruption. Definite the EU's fault.
I speak objectively. Hard to know why you have rose tinted glasses.
Remainers never in my experience care about facts. They should Check the numbers.
The Eu is completely dysfunctional. Massively favouring rich northern states but Germany in particular, and as you saw from target 2,there is a massive flood of capital back to germany whilst Destroying the fabric of some of the outlying countries. Justifying the analogies to trainloads of cash, and scorched earth.
But it will not end well, The question is when not whether Italy crashes out of the euro collapsing banks like dominos. Too big to save.
Last edited by Oracle; 14-04-2019 at 10:34 PM.
The figures I repeatedly quote at 30 percent youth unemployment in Italy, Spain and 40 in Greece are indeed fact.those numbers are outrageous, Maybe you don't care about that sociological disaster at present, but you certainly will in time. These are the angry young adults leading to populist elections.
In the mezzegornio of southern italy and such as Naples it is getting consistently worse. 50 percent youth unemployment now. Objective poverty ( not enough to eat) is dramatically increasing. Do you care?
I know, some of my tenants are escapees from there. Ditto from Greece. Part of the tragedy of Greece is the brain drain, as it is from all poor Eu states. A large proportion of graduates leave, so that Greece cannot rebuild, the EU budget veto ensures that.
Germany is no doubt happy that many of the Greek engineers go there. One of my tenants was an engineer from Greece. Another an architect from Italy from around Naples, a lorry driver approached me from Romania.so I know the reality because I speak to them. Indeed youngsters i speak to in Portugal are increasingly desparate.
Countries are being denuded, the populations of ex eastern countries have lost even 10 percent of population, mainly youngsters, a massive brain drain. Which will lead to a demographic timebomb. Not enough youngsters to pay for the elderly.
All in the name of a bankrupt ideology, that enriches such as Germany, now look at the flood of money going back to Germany in target 2. Proof of what I said.
It will not end well. Such as italy is beyond rescue.EU refuse to help. ECB is hitting the legal limits of what it can do. The EU rules on bank collateral are nothing short of reckless. And when italy crashes down and banks with it, the Eurozone will go with it.
EU should be a mutual benefit society. It most certainly is not. I suggest you study reality of your precious EU , and Stop shooting the messenger.
Last edited by Oracle; 14-04-2019 at 10:41 PM.
Oracle, you seem to be conflating a policy of propping up troubled banks with the general tenets of the EU.
Many other countries did this too if you remember. Our government was very instrumental in leading the charge, partly due to our economy being heavily dependent on the financial sector.
Whether or not this was a good idea, it's not the goal of the EU - it was a tool used in response to a financial crisis.
PS. For one who seems to dislike the hard left so much, your injudicious use of language to describe the institutions you don't like is straight out of the Militant handbook. You weaken your arguments when you do this.
Noel.
With respect, from your comment.I don't think you understand crazy ECB and Euro bank collateral rules, or how EU treasury debt is financed. This is a Eurozone structural issue. The bankrupt Italian state and bankrupt Italian banks are intimately entwined and trapped in a doom loop.
The zombie banks are propped up on worthless Italian bonds because the rules of Eurozone decree it. When the market bond rates reflect the true risk,because all of these debts need refinancing periodically, it really is game over. Current bond rates already hint at 20 percent likelihood of default, the truth is even worse.
Also EU changed rules on bailouts, will make our own type of bailout illegal and so market reaction a great deal worse. Panic in the bond markets. And you need to appreciate scale. The Italian problem is at least an order of magnitude bigger. A 2 trillion problem. Italy is too big to save.
We are in the crazy situation that if we leave EU, we are then obliged to take a. objective view of junk Italian bonds, instead of the EU decreed insanity that they are no risk, and reflecting reality will make our own banks dangerously undercapitalised. When that happens bailins from customer accounts are likely. We really are on a knife edge.
Last edited by Oracle; 14-04-2019 at 11:05 PM.
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