Brexit

[noel]

Noel, I don't need to believe the pro-Tory press I just need to take Corbyn's own words.

https://labour.org.uk/press/let-bill...ection-corbyn/

Labour would back an election as soon as the Benn bill passed. It passed so why are they still blocking an election?

That was a month ago. How about this:

"Labour had considered whether it could amend the motion in order to fix the election date, to prevent Johnson changing it in order to force through a no-deal Brexit – but has been advised that any amendments would not have legal force."
From the leftie Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tober-election

Also, if it were just about Corbyn being a big scaredie chicken, why did the other parties take the same line? Some of them are doing pretty well in the opinion polls relative to their normal standing.

[Witton Park]

That was a month ago. How about this:

"Labour had considered whether it could amend the motion in order to fix the election date, to prevent Johnson changing it in order to force through a no-deal Brexit – but has been advised that any amendments would not have legal force."
From the leftie Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tober-election

Also, if it were just about Corbyn being a big scaredie chicken, why did the other parties take the same line? Some of them are doing pretty well in the opinion polls relative to their normal standing.

Noel, you also miss the guarantee that the date of 15th October would be written in to the act to set a General Election.

You see the discretion of the PM is to set the date within a set period under the terms of the Fixed Term Parliament Act following a vote to topple a Government.

The Government offered a one-line bill that would have by-passed the act and specified the date.

[Witton Park]

25/9 Hansard

The Attorney General

If the right hon. Member for Delyn (David Hanson) is so confident that his electorate will consider that his moral right to sit here is so strong, ​why does he not submit it to them now? All we need—I offer this to the Labour Front Bench—is a one-line Bill, which we could put through with Mr Speaker’s help, to fix the date of a general election by a simple majority, and we could have the election. Why does he not tell his Front Bench to put his confidence in his constituents to the test?

At this time it was still possible to have a General Election prior to 31/10 and allow a new PM then to decide whether or not to seek to extend, revoke, or just leave.

Now it isn't.

[Muddy Retriever]

That was a month ago. How about this:

"Labour had considered whether it could amend the motion in order to fix the election date, to prevent Johnson changing it in order to force through a no-deal Brexit – but has been advised that any amendments would not have legal force."

Also, if it were just about Corbyn being a big scaredie chicken, why did the other parties take the same line? Some of them are doing pretty well in the opinion polls relative to their normal standing.

That's true but recent polls have suggested that the Conservatives would win an overall majority if an election were to be held before the end of October.

I think their strategy has been to seek to humiliate Johnson by forcing him to request an extension from the EU. He will then be seen to have reneged on his promise to leave "do or die" by 31st October. At any ensuing general election the Brexit party might well make inroads into the Conservatives vote and split the Leave support. I believe this cynical ploy is the actual motive for the opposition parties refusing a general election rather than any real fear he would seek to move the date.

[DrPatrickBarry]

I quite enjoy going onto the telegraph website and reading the headlines, it is amazing the viciousness in relation to the EU and brexit. But this letter headline this morning is a new low.
"Letters: The EU’s cynical fixation on the Irish border raises the risk of no deal"

It has been going on for years now about how the stupid paddy is being manipulated by the evil EU empire to try to thwart brexit.

The English just have no idea about Ireland and the situation in Northern Ireland in particular. You just cannot see (or more than likely refuse to see, because it spoils your opinion of the EU) that it is the Dublin government that has manipulated the EU to get them to back up the entire Dáil Éireann desire (and the vast majority of the N.I population) to protect the status quo.

[Witton Park]

I quite enjoy going onto the telegraph website and reading the headlines, it is amazing the viciousness in relation to the EU and brexit. But this letter headline this morning is a new low.
"Letters: The EU’s cynical fixation on the Irish border raises the risk of no deal"

It has been going on for years now about how the stupid paddy is being manipulated by the evil EU empire to try to thwart brexit.

The English just have no idea about Ireland and the situation in Northern Ireland in particular. You just cannot see (or more than likely refuse to see, because it spoils your opinion of the EU) that it is the Dublin government that has manipulated the EU to get them to back up the entire Dáil Éireann desire (and the vast majority of the N.I population) to protect the status quo.

on 1st November we can have several options and with reference to the island of Ireland it has additional consequences.

1. No Deal
2. The old GATT24 that seems to have been forgotten (for now at least)
3. The BJ "deal".
4. the old "deal".
5. A delay - but to what?

4 will not float. We know that, it was tried 3 times. It also doesn't include the issue of consent.

3 Seems over-complicated to try and deal with some of the political issues.

2 in my opinion would work best. You agree a simple FTA, roll-over existing arrangements to give time to put the FTA and management of it together and from 1st November crack on setting up the alternative arrangements in the UK for ALL borders. If it can be shown to be feasible, this kills off the opposition to it.
We can guarantee to shadow EU Tariffs and regs for two years.

1 Well if 2 doesn't work, as least 1 has been delayed a couple of years, but allowed the UK to leave, and more time for preparation can help.
But if it is 1, just wait and see how many things that couldn't be done, are then done.

[noel]

That's true but recent polls have suggested that the Conservatives would win an overall majority if an election were to be held before the end of October.

I think their strategy has been to seek to humiliate Johnson by forcing him to request an extension from the EU. He will then be seen to have reneged on his promise to leave "do or die" by 31st October. At any ensuing general election the Brexit party might well make inroads into the Conservatives vote and split the Leave support. I believe this cynical ploy is the actual motive for the opposition parties refusing a general election rather than any real fear he would seek to move the date.

You might be right there. The other parties have certainly sought to make hay from the conservatives self-inflicted brexit injuries. It would be strange if the Brexit party handed power to Labour.

[noel]

Noel, you also miss the guarantee that the date of 15th October would be written in to the act to set a General Election.

You see the discretion of the PM is to set the date within a set period under the terms of the Fixed Term Parliament Act following a vote to topple a Government.

The Government offered a one-line bill that would have by-passed the act and specified the date.

You're right WP, I did miss that. Thanks.

[DrPatrickBarry]

The Government offered a one-line bill that would have by-passed the act and specified the date.

No they didn't, becasue the opposion could have added all sorts of amendents to it such as reducng the voting age to 16.

[Muddy Retriever]

I quite enjoy going onto the telegraph website and reading the headlines, it is amazing the viciousness in relation to the EU and brexit. But this letter headline this morning is a new low.
"Letters: The EU’s cynical fixation on the Irish border raises the risk of no deal"

It has been going on for years now about how the stupid paddy is being manipulated by the evil EU empire to try to thwart brexit.

So criticising the EU is a new low? I'd call it freedom of speech. Are we not even allowed that now?

I don't know if you saw the Barnier quote I posted yesterday. I'd say that was pretty cynical.

Did you read the letters underneath that headline by the way? You may not have done because I think you'd need to be a Telegraph subscriber. There were four short ones. I've read them and I can tell you there is nothing remotely offensive in any of them - in fact milder than the headline. I'm happy to copy and paste them if you wish.