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Thread: Brexit

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    On the Northern Irish border, it is staggeringly obvious that this cannot be resolved until we have the outline of a trade agreement.
    Do we agree that to stop freedom of movement a hard border is necessary?
    If yes, how to combine immigration-control with Ireland remaining without a hard border?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    The legal answer to this particular question would be nothing. There is no provision for a divorce bill in Article 50.
    The "divorce bill" is not a divorce bill, is a bill based on decisions taken together, by the 28, not by the 27, is not a "new" bill.

  3. #23
    Master Muddy Retriever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    Not true.
    The bill is based on decisions to which the UK committed BEFORE the referendum.

    How about 28 friends at the pub order a pint each, and before being served one of them says "sorry guys, I'm going home without drinking". Should his mate pay his drink?
    The UK has been paying for the drinks of other members since 1973. But now it has decided to leave the pub and go home it no longer wants to carry on paying for those members who are still drinking in the pub.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    The Government has already accepted that it will pay something in order to secure a free trade agreement with the EU but how it can it commit to a figure without knowing what the UK will get in return?
    They are not paying to get something back. They should pay because the UK had agreed on it in past years.
    There should be no discussion "I give you so much and I get such-and-such in return"

  5. #25
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    I suspect there is nothing reasonable we could offer that would satisfy the EU27. There will be a mismatch between what they demand and what we feel able / can afford to give. They want us to 'show our hand' before proceeding. Doesn't that remove our right to negotiate? Why not allow a parallel process to facilitate negotiations rather than hinder them by insisting on a serial process? Why would they be so intransigent? Perhaps they want to make the maximum example of us and cause us maximum damage to discourage anyone else from daring to leave. They are holding us to ransom, just as I knew they would if we dared to ask to leave.

    We should do what James Dyson said last Sunday on the Andrew Marr show. Walk away. They will come to us. They need us as much as we need them. Blocking and putting up barriers is in no-one's interest. We need a strong leader to stand firm and tell them a few home truths. I thought a Conservative government would be best placed to stand up for our rights but unfortunately the present one isn't coming across as strong and resolute. The negative doom-laden media and social engineering of the left wing news feeds over which we have no control probably don't help the issue. For example, I don't recall seeing James Dyson's comments on my daily MSN indoctrination from the Guardian and (cough) 'Independent'. His comments don't fit their agenda, do they?

  6. #26
    In my years in England I saw a huge percentage of the NHS staff actually non british.
    And one day we all hear "let's stop immigration, otherwise our NHS cannot cope with all this EU patients! "

    Dear UK, it was not in your interest.

  7. #27
    Master Muddy Retriever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    The "divorce bill" is not a divorce bill, is a bill based on decisions taken together, by the 28, not by the 27, is not a "new" bill.
    When a new member joins the EU, does it get a rebate on commitments made before it joined but which are being spent while it is a member? The answer is no so it can't be logical that you have to go on contributing for expenditure that won't be made until long after you leave. Not to mention the fact that there is no legal basis for any payment post March 2019.

    Plus the EU refuses to recognise the UK's share of the assets it holds. Again that is illogical if they are insisting that the UK has to bear a share of the liabilities.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by BritNick View Post
    They need us as much as we need them.
    Absolutely wrong. And it is strongly against your intereest to pretend so.

    They EU needs the UK, very much.
    But the UK needs the EU a lot more.

    It's 27 and 1.

  9. #29
    Master Muddy Retriever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BritNick View Post
    I suspect there is nothing reasonable we could offer that would satisfy the EU27......We should do what James Dyson said last Sunday on the Andrew Marr show. Walk away.
    I agree and there is precedent for the way the EU conducts negotiations. I would recommend an excellent book by Yanis Varoufakis, the former Greek Finance Minister, called Adults in the Rooms. It is a fascinating read. The EU were not interested in a workable solution to sort out Greece's huge debts, only its capitulation. Back in May Varoufakis said it was a waste of time for the UK to negotiate with the EU. It looks like he was right. Here is an article from him detailing the EU tactics.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...at-theresa-may

    You can already see the same tactics being used by the EU in the talks with Britain.
    Last edited by Muddy Retriever; 17-11-2017 at 03:36 PM.

  10. #30
    Master Stagger's Avatar
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    Still glad to be British and not European.
    A quote,

    "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall."

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