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Thread: Brexit

  1. #31
    Master Wheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    The UK has been paying for the drinks of other members since 1973. But now it has decided to leave the pub and go home it no longer wants to carry on paying for those members who are still drinking in the pub.
    Good answer!
    Simon Blease
    Monmouth

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    In my years in England I saw a huge percentage of the NHS staff actually non british.
    And one day we all hear "let's stop immigration, otherwise our NHS cannot cope with all this EU patients! "

    Dear UK, it was not in your interest.
    I don't recall anyone saying immigration will stop.
    The NHS has needed help from other nationalities almost from inception. GP services in the Welsh valleys wold have collapsed in the 60's were it not for a huge influx of Indian doctors. I dont think anyone has said that will change?
    Simon Blease
    Monmouth

  3. #33
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    Do we agree that to stop freedom of movement a hard border is necessary?
    If yes, how to combine immigration-control with Ireland remaining without a hard border?
    Freedom of movement of people is not the issue with the Irish border. The UK/Ireland freedom of movement predates the EU. It is freedom of movement of goods (and in the NI/Eire situation this is mainly related to agricultural products) that is the killer question. Whatever trade deal the EU/UK finally trash-out agricultural products will be the big looser meaning the island of Ireland will be a big looser.
    Last edited by DrPatrickBarry; 17-11-2017 at 05:22 PM.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeze View Post
    I don't recall anyone saying immigration will stop.
    Immigration was the main drive for those who voted Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeze View Post
    The NHS has needed help from other nationalities almost from inception.
    The NHS relies hugely on non-British staff, I think recently more than in past decades. How will you spend your 350 M/week once the EU citizens working for the NHS are made to leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeze View Post
    GP services in the Welsh valleys wold have collapsed in the 60's were it not for a huge influx of Indian doctors. I dont think anyone has said that will change?
    You want the EU citizens but the Indians can stay?
    Last edited by Gambatte; 17-11-2017 at 09:09 PM.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    I would recommend an excellent book by Yanis Varoufakis.
    He was not satisfied end then wrote a book saying THEY are not reasonable.
    I find hard to believe the book is not biased.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    Still glad to be British and not European.
    You ARE European. And will remain so after 29 March.

  7. #37
    The UK government should better decide what deal it should try to achieve with the EU. Hard to see this happening, since they all have different opinions. Among top politicians the Brexiteers were/are so weak that after Dave resigned they could not even replace him, so a remainer got his job.

    Do not forget that for any deal to be implemented it will have to be aproved by 27 parliaments. Good luck with that. You knew this before 23.06. Whom in the Brexit camp can possibly believe the polish parlament will ratify a trade deal unless polish citizens maintain freedom of movement?

  8. #38
    Senior Member William Clough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    Still glad to be British and not European.
    The British are probably the most European country in the EU. A typical Briton has DNA from:

    Germany - Anglo Saxon
    French - Norman
    Denmark - Jute
    Brittany - Breton
    Spain - Britonia
    Iceland, Sweden and Denmark - Viking
    Northern Italy,Anatolia (modern day Turkey!)and of course Ireland and Scotland - Celts

    So I'm afraid you will always be European Stagger.

  9. #39
    Master Muddy Retriever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    He was not satisfied end then wrote a book saying THEY are not reasonable.
    I find hard to believe the book is not biased.
    Of course he is biased, which one of us isn't? As for not being satisfied, that's pretty understandable when you think that the austerity imposed by the EU has left Greece's economy in ruins and many of its people impoverished.

    Successive Greek Governments must take their share of the blame for the reckless public spending and the culture of tax evasion that put the country in the state it was in the first place. But the action taken afterwards did not follow the typical IMF recovery plan. Normally the defaulting country has to undergo some austerity, but receives debt relief and its economy is helped by a depreciating currency.

    Obviously the latter point is not as option for a country in the euro. The EU acted to save the euro and German and French banks that stood to lose the most from a Greek default. We can talk about reckless spending but what about the reckless lending of the German and French banks? Surely they should have been made to bear their own losses from their commercial decisions.

    We often talk about austerity in Britain over the last seven years but it has been nothing compared to Greece. In the latter it has been so swingeing that GDP fell by more than 25%. By comparison the UK's economy is 10% bigger than it was before the financial crisis.

    Inevitably Greece's debt to GDP ratio increased to astronomical proportions. They can never pay it back and its creditors (mainly EU taxpayers) will never see their money. Varoufakis was trying to renegotiate a sensible debt restructuring plan that involved some debt relief. This would mean that Greece's economy could start to grow again, once unshackled from harsh austerity and the creditors would eventually see some repayment.

    But this would mean the EU's politicians would have to admit the truth about their previous "bailouts" and they were never going to do that. So Varoufakis was met by the array of negotiating tactics that he described in the article.
    Last edited by Muddy Retriever; 18-11-2017 at 10:28 AM.

  10. #40
    Master Muddy Retriever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    Immigration was the main drive for those who voted Brexit.
    I voted to leave and it wasn't the main drive for me.

    A poll conducted just after the referendum found that 49% of those who voted to leave did so because of “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. That was my main reason too.

    33% said it “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.”

    And just because you concerns have about the level of immigration, (which has been huge in recent years) it doesn't mean you are in favour of none at all.

    The NHS relies hugely on non-British staff, I think recently more than in past decades. How will you spend your 350 M/week once the EU citizens working for the NHS are made to leave?
    Oh really, who has said this? There is zero prospect of EU citizens being made to leave.

    It is interesting when you hear all the scaremongering talk of a Brexodous of EU citizens since the vote (in the Guardian, Independent, BBC etc) what the figures actually show. Figures just released by the ONS reveal that there are 2.38 EU nationals working in the UK. That is 112,000 more than were here this time last year. There are also 3,181 extra staff working in the NHS than at the end of June 2016. So while some people are leaving (there has always been a high turnover of foreign workers) they are still being replaced by more coming in.

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