Gotcha, sport for men, kintting for women.Originally Posted by bigfella
I've got a young daughter and I despair that this sort of attitude* persists. She's only 4 and already I've seen countless examples of expectations placed on her as a girl in terms of what she should do, how she should behave, what she should be in to. It's really tuned me in to this stuff where I was largely ignorant of it before, and it's everywhere.
*although I'm sure it's usually done with no ill intent.
Geoff Clarke
You've hit the nail on the head there BigFella - it's all about equal opportunity. If someone did decide to join a group as a minority then they should be treated in the same way as others in the group. So (as a male) if I wanted to join the local knitting circle then that would be fine (except I don't have time as I'm usually out running on the fells :-)
See the light in the night
You can then get the complete opposite, which we are seeing with the BBC sports coverage for example, where women's football, cricket, rugby, is being rammed down everybody's throat at every opportunity, despite there being (comparably) very little interest in the wider population.
I run for a (track/field/road/xc) club with arguably one of the best junior programmes in the country, and at junior level it's near enough an equal split amongst boys and girls. And a relatively even split between white/black ethnic groups, with the black background massively well represented in the sprinter's groups (another stereotype!) But get up to our 'masters' age group and it's 80/20 in favour of men.
Which suggests to me that opportunity is there for people to enter, but it's other factors (life?) which causes a significantly higher drop out from females.
That is not at all what I said.
Perhaps I should have used other sports as examples e.g. synchronised swimming, netball... A sport that would seem to have roughly equal participation of men/women is horse riding in its many forms (not racing) although I suspect there is some class discrimination in this case.
Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run
I don't see anything wrong in what bigfella said there. as far as i can see bigfella is not saying girls should stick to knitting.
to simply observe (even if illustrated with daft examples) different activities/interests are taken up unevenly by reference to gender is not to display a bad 'sort of attitude'.
to try to force or even expect (or even 'encourage' if the intervention goes too far) everything to be taken up in proportion (i.e. quotas) is not a good policy for anyone concerned.
the absence of prejudice and discrimination does not equate to or require equality of participation. it is not the case that equality of participation is necessarily a 'good' objective. freedom and equality of opportunity are paramount.
telling someone they have a bad attitude for expressing such a view is not a good thing to do.
I understand, and my comment was a little flippant, sorry. But it's interesting that it is those stereotypes that do come out so easily. Even the sports you list - it's like they're the ones it's traditionally ok for girls to do. I'm not digging at you here, this stuff is all over the place and I probably do it myself (despite trying to be more sensitive to it).
The stuff about equal opportunities is bang on and I think, generally, probably is the case for most sports - if someone turns up to an event/club/whatever they are likely to be welcomed regardless of race, gender, etc. And that's great. But there's another level of complexity, and that's what prevents someone from accessing those opportunities... the societal constructs and expectations that steer groups of people and their behaviour. The link below is interesting reading. It's 10 years old, so things have probably improved slightly, and folk might dispute some of it, but as an overall picture of what might prevent women participating in sport I reckon it gives a good summary.
https://www.lrsport.org/uploads/barr...n-girls-17.pdf
And Travs, the stuff about women's sports "being rammed down everyone's throat"? Mate, that just seems crackers to me. We should be celebrating the fact it's getting media exposure and kids can see positive female sporting role models.
Geoff Clarke
Fair points, my comment was out of order.
And as I say above, I agree with the equal ops stuff. I also agree expecting equal participation and having quotas would be a bad thing. BUT, I just think it's really important to look a bit deeper at the reasons why certain groups don't do (or do less) of certain activities. Why should fell running mainly appeal to white men? There's got to be more to it than not as may women and/or ethnic minority people would enjoy running on the fells. That's what I think anyway.
On that note, in the words of Duncan Bannatyne "ahm oot". This is an important, interesting subject, but it's complicated and nuanced and maybe a web forum isn't the best place to discuss it. Happy running everyone!
Geoff Clarke
Should the BBC though, who are funded by the licence payer, be giving so much air time to women's football, rugby, cricket, when there appears to be no market for them. If it's equal coverage for all, then what about fell/mountain running (where England/UK is arguably amongst the world elite, both men and women), when is that getting coverage on the BBC and elsewhere. Doesn't get a look-in, arguably rightly so, as there isn't really the interest in the wider population.
Political correctness gone mad i tell you....!!!
👍👍👍👍👍
Hank,
You could say the same about any programme on BBC TV or Radio, that is geared towards a relative minority within the population. I am referring to arts programmes, etc.
They are still TV License payers.
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