Plastics? Who's to blame?

[JohnK]

https://www.facebook.com/inspiringec...619551534/?t=5

There's no doubt some fishing gear is lost at sea, but it costs a fortune and the idea it's dumped willy-nilly is a stretch.

I know a few creel guys. One of the issues they have is that their creels, set on lines with marker buoys, are destroyed with impunity.
A few cases have happened in the firth of Clyde where large vessels anchor up waiting to for the pilot to guide them in and the anchor drags through their tackle, losing their creels and setting free their marker buoys which then wash up locally usually.
Further, this has at times been in a Maritime Protection Area where dredging is banned, yet you want to see the damage a large anchor can do to the sea bed.

Slightly of tangent but still relevant :-

http://https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/sc...nment-49759626


http://https://www.theguardian.com/e...trial-frontier

So they will be destroying the seabed to produce the batteries to power electric cars that are supposedly enviromentally sound, never mind how they are going to dispose of the enviomentally destructive batteries.

[Wheeze]

Out of sight, out of mind. Typical. Battery cars are so not the answer to the future of personal mobility.

[bigfella]

The planet is just not capable of supporting our growing population with ever increasing demands for energy and other natural resources. Another 'hidden' energy consumer is the internet specifically streaming services https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45798523

[Wheeze]

Constant re-engineering our relationships with what supports us is essential and becomes ever more important. We are driven by progress and in all of history, have we ever taken a backward step? Admittedly, when great empires fall, there are massive local effects (such as in Britain after the withdrawal of the Romans) but the focus of progress moved elsewhere. Now that we are a global village, the progress can be shared pretty much instantly. Russia did not fall backwards after the end of the Soviet Empire.
So, our (ab)use of plastics is part of a global problem, a habit fed by commerce but part of 'progress'. Of course, paper bags may be kinder to the environment (as long as they do not promote mass deforestation!) but the real question to be answered is could there be a better answer. Compostible bags are good but actually do we need to re-engineer the whole consumption process? i.e. go deeper into the problem. In small towns, forcing use of local produce can help but theres no way that can answer the problem for large conurbations.

Our energy needs are a far bigger and multifaceted issue though.

[Chris K]

1851 50% of the UK population (21 million) lived in urban areas, by 1901 75% of the population (37 million)were urban. By 1951 the UK population was up to 58.8 million and by 2007 61 million. Perhaps there are too many people using everything and we don't have any predator control?

[Oracle]

Question - what is being packaged?

A big part of the answer is part or whole preprepared food,

Generations past used to cook from raw, and rarely bought take away food.
Milk was delivered in reusable bottles, on electric floats.
Taking shopping bags to such as greengrocers was the norm.

Since then came fast food, take away , pre prepared meals and portions.

And whilst I get “ time” is now a problem, it is still straightforward to home mass produce
Meals, and store them in freezers in reusable containers. We do.

That’s only a part answer to a much bigger problem.
Seems to me, the way society lives must change, the packaging is a product of that.

Constant re-engineering our relationships with what supports us is essential and becomes ever more important. We are driven by progress and in all of history, have we ever taken a backward step? Admittedly, when great empires fall, there are massive local effects (such as in Britain after the withdrawal of the Romans) but the focus of progress moved elsewhere. Now that we are a global village, the progress can be shared pretty much instantly. Russia did not fall backwards after the end of the Soviet Empire.
So, our (ab)use of plastics is part of a global problem, a habit fed by commerce but part of 'progress'. Of course, paper bags may be kinder to the environment (as long as they do not promote mass deforestation!) but the real question to be answered is could there be a better answer. Compostible bags are good but actually do we need to re-engineer the whole consumption process? i.e. go deeper into the problem. In small towns, forcing use of local produce can help but theres no way that can answer the problem for large conurbations.

Our energy needs are a far bigger and multifaceted issue though.

[Wheeze]

Part of the downside of a business-driven economy is that new ideas to make money have a significant downside but the mantra of 'let the market decide' will often invite those negatives in. The whole food packaging business has come on the back of a business model that people want....whilst ignoring the negative impact. same thing goes for other 'great' new ideas like these wretched on line bike hire companies that results in city streets littered with bikes for the unwary (or part sighted) to trip over. But whats the alternative to the market forces model? State control??

[Stagger]

Manufacturers.
And
Distributors.

Big business. But blame the public.