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Thread: Kit conundrum

  1. #21
    [QUOTE=mountainsloth;647609]Hope said full kit was required because its FRA rules. It clearly isn't. However, this wasn't a problem because it was advertised in advance. Wolf's Pit made no mention of kit requirement until the starting paddock, again seeming to say 'hey, it's the FRA, not us'.

    I am not commenting on hearsay but people are people, including ROs who sometimes prefer to blame the FRA for kit requirements, and much else, rather than have endless arguments with individual runners - and that is OK and understandable.

    And, whisper the thought, some ROs don't actually understand the FRA rules very well.

    I have been on many start lines and heard the FRA blamed for many things which, not least because I was Chairman for three years, I know were just not true but I didn't stand on a soap box and say "lies, all lies" but instead I just smiled and got on with my race - hopefully carrying the right kit.

    I don't think you're difficult but just accept the way things are - there is a reason.
    Last edited by Graham Breeze; 18-03-2019 at 04:37 PM.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  2. #22
    Master PeteS's Avatar
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    I can't comment on the specific race in question but if it is not advertised as being run under FRA rules, then I can understand the confusion.

    However if it is, then the onus is surely on all runners to turn up with full kit regardless of the category. Simples! No?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by PeteS View Post
    I can't comment on the specific race in question but if it is not advertised as being run under FRA rules, then I can understand the confusion.

    However if it is, then the onus is surely on all runners to turn up with full kit regardless of the category. Simples! No?
    Why? If there's an analogy to use here, it would probably be the Highway Code. Must vs should. Don't comply with a must and you risk prosecution, don't comply with a should and you don't. For AL, AM, BL you must carry kit. There's no requirement to carry kit for other categories unless the RO expressly specifies. If you know that, have checked the promotional literature, website, Facebook etc and there is no mention of requirements, why would the onus be on you to turn up with kit?
    I'm not arguing against the merit of kit, the need for kit or the decision of ROs to enforce kit, I'm just trying to understand why there's this grey area that can cause confusion.

  4. #24
    Master Travs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainsloth View Post
    If you know that, have checked the promotional literature, website, Facebook etc and there is no mention of requirements, why would the onus be on you to turn up with kit?.
    Because the RO decision is final (as the rules clearly state), and they may specify that full kit is required...

  5. #25
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    So why not mention that "they may specify that full kit is required" prior to registration.
    Visibility good except in Hill Fog

  6. #26
    Master Stagger's Avatar
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    The rules cover the whole year.
    But
    The RO covers that race on that day.

    Best practice is have everything in your car, and pack at least minimum.

    I've done knee ligaments in a race and been stuck on the moors for 2 hours in freezing hail. Bloody scary.

  7. #27
    Master PeteS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainsloth View Post
    Why? If there's an analogy to use here, it would probably be the Highway Code. Must vs should. Don't comply with a must and you risk prosecution, don't comply with a should and you don't. For AL, AM, BL you must carry kit. There's no requirement to carry kit for other categories unless the RO expressly specifies. If you know that, have checked the promotional literature, website, Facebook etc and there is no mention of requirements, why would the onus be on you to turn up with kit?
    I'm not arguing against the merit of kit, the need for kit or the decision of ROs to enforce kit, I'm just trying to understand why there's this grey area that can cause confusion.
    I'm not disagreeing with you. If you know in advance that the highway code is what you need to adhere to then fine and if the RO stipulates that in advance then alls well and good.
    However, if the race is under FRA regs, they can and should issue instructions to carry any other kit on the day depending on the conditions. Therefore you should turn up with it even if it you don't need it.

  8. #28
    Master Wheeze's Avatar
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    Mountainsloths views as a relative newcomer are very valuable and do point out a continuing question which some people never seem to be able to grasp. Derby Tup puts it clearly and sensibly but unfortunately dingbats abound and clarity and sensibility are alien to them. And the point about where harsher fell races are bagged up together with slightly challenging trail races near urban centres is also important.
    Perhaps its time to re-think the definition of a fell race and direct some races towards the trail racing fraternity? Then make the carrying of full kit mandatory at all fell races with reduction at RO discretion?
    I am Kuno....

  9. #29
    Senior Member Peter M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeze View Post
    Perhaps its time to re-think the definition of a fell race and direct some races towards the trail racing fraternity? Then make the carrying of full kit mandatory at all fell races with reduction at RO discretion?
    Some of the"trail" races near me venture onto ground that is really fell. One recent event had 2 competitors evacuated by mountain rescue. Some fell running friends on a training run assisted with one until the MRT arrived. I understand there were no kit requirements.

  10. #30
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    Well, thats a good point. The underlying issue is that, on a good day everything will be fine and a race will pass without mishap. BUT the races are happening outside of an urban support network so any mishap can suddenly become quite major. There was that brilliant article in the Fell Runner a couple of years back where, on a lovely sunny day, a poor chap stumbled and gashed his knee very badly. It could have ended up more serious had not a fellow competitor arrived carrying full kit on a fine, sunny day. His wet weather gear was put to use an emergency tourniquet and dressing.
    Moral of story. ALWAYS carry full kit. Its not just for you but for your fellow competitor who might suffer an unexpected misfortune away from the usual first aid facilities of an urban environment.
    I am Kuno....

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