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Thread: Voting at EU elections

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    But do you suffer from Nietzches other observation?
    "It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"

    '"I have done that" says memory. "I cannot have done that", says pride and remains inexorable.

    Eventually - memory yields'. (Beyond Good and Evil)



    Today, of course, we would refer to cognitive dissonance, revisionism, et al but Nietzsche preceded today's psycho-mumbo-jumbo-babble.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  2. #92
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    Too true. I can remember my opinions of 20 years ago vividly.
    I can no longer remember whether I still hold them or why!


    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    '"I have done that" says memory. "I cannot have done that", says pride and remains inexorable.

    Eventually - memory yields'. (Beyond Good and Evil)



    Today, of course, we would refer to cognitive dissonance, revisionism, et al but Nietzsche preceded today's psycho-mumbo-jumbo-babble.

  3. #93
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    I've got more lives on this forum than a cat. But seriously I think Brett has done a pretty good job over the years in allowing most said things through.

    In regard to Nigel Farage I think he's a thoroughly decent chap who has stood up for millions of unhappy voters who don't have anyone to speak up for them. And what does he get for it. Vicious accusations of being a racist. And why. Because he wants a fair and reasonable immigration system as well as being a patriot. But here's my beef. The people who accuse him and his party of being racists want controlled immigration as well. They self righteously pretend virtue and tolerance but really they agree with controlling numbers into the UK. So I ask the question to the Farage snipers 'do you believe in open borders.' And instead of answering a serious point and making an interesting conversation on here possible they make silly snipes. That's cowardice.


    So you think Farage and his party are racist. Well come on here and tell us you want open borders to the UK then we can consider that point.
    Last edited by CL; Yesterday at 12:06 AM.

  4. #94
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    Oh and why is it people who dislike Farage have selective memory? He appears on Question Time, doesn't say a word for around twelve minutes and when he does Fiona Bruce immediately starts talking over him. But what do we get from Mike-T and Chris K: Oh that Farage likes talking over WOMEN and oh wasn't Fiona Bruce an example of grace and good manners give me a break! Strewth!

    But you see the insinuation. "oohhh I don't like that racist Farage, and now look he's also talking over Women. Must be a misanthrope as well as a racist."

    They start adding things to his list of evil but they are blind to the ways of their own sort.
    Last edited by CL; Yesterday at 12:06 AM.

  5. #95
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    Spot on.

    Do these same people accuse Australia , New Zealand , Canada or Switzerland ( by way of examples) of endemic racism too, because they ( rightly) control borders or the right to residency?

    The objective truth is the Euro and EU economic policy is a provable failure in a 100 percent list of currency union failures all for the same reasons.

    One consequence of the abject failure of the EU is mass economic migration which is as damaging to the recipient states as it is to the depopulating states that then have an even worse demographic timebomb.

    In our case not even the most optimistic forecasts on house building could get anywhere close to the incoming migrants , which in the case of the EU are not even controllable. Until the EU fix their own stupid financial policies we are obliged to control the symptoms of it in migration.

    Our population has grown 10 percent in recent history, most seem to want to live in our overcrowded cities when England ( as opposed to U.K.) is already the densest population in the EU of substantial states. That is causing massive pressure on rents and accommodation. So the only thing we can do is control our borders to limit who comes.

    Yet the obvious common sense of this is met by the word "racist" either as collective or personal insult, which reflects on the disgraceful ethics of those who say it. I view it as libellous, I am as far from racist as any can be. Both friends and tenants come from all nationalities. You just cannot overcrowd a lifeboat which will then sink.

    The stupidity of mushy liberal thinking " build bridges not walls" is the root of many of societies problems, not the solution to them, as the flood of drugs and illegals across the Mexican border proves. The illegals are then victim to the worst side of organised crime, yet any attempt to fix it is also met with " racist"

    So pleaese, remainers, stop using cheap shot libel " racist" of brexiters or farage
    He deals with nasty posters far better than the endemically nasty Labour Party.

    If you have any valid arguments for remain that actually stand scrutiny I would love to hear them, since most of the remain arguments betray woeful ignorance of how EUworks, EU economic performance or both.

    I agree with CL about cowardice, it is the same as Corbynistas deciding to spend yet more billions we do not have on yet another feel good project: in act of cowardice they all go silent when you ask what they would cut to pay for it, or demonstrate woeful ignorance of the taxation system at present, or how corporations actually work. They buy every silly Corbyn myth at face value, and in total cowardice refuse to talk about what they would cut or do to fund it.

    It was karma when the NUS that supported corbyns " austerity is a choice" mantra, refusing to talk about funding for plans, was forced to cut away most of its infrastructure or face bankruptcy. They now live in the real world instead.


    But please CL - just give DT slack, He's not in a great place right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by CL View Post
    I've got more lives on this forum than a cat. But seriously I think Brett has done a pretty good job over the years in allowing most said things through.

    In regard to Nigel Farage I think he's a thoroughly decent chap who has stood up for millions of unhappy voters who don't have anyone to speak up for them. And what does he get for it. Vicious accusations of being a racist. And why. Because he wants a fair and reasonable immigration system as well as being a patriot. But here's my beef. The people who accuse him and his party of being racists want controlled immigration as well. They self righteously pretend virtue and tolerance but really they agree with controlling numbers into the UK. So I ask the question to the Farage snipers 'do you believe in open borders.' And instead of answering a serious point and making an interesting conversation on here possible they make silly snipes. That's cowardice.


    So you think Farage and his party are racist. Well come on here and tell us you want open borders to the UK then we can consider that point.
    Last edited by Oracle; Yesterday at 08:11 AM.

  6. #96
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    One of my friends was at Orgreave.
    He wasn't a miner.
    He wasn't from the area.
    But he was what I would call a "flying agitator" and it's interesting listening to him. He's stood on platforms in Northern Ireland with Sinn Fein/IRA, he chased Jack Straw and Condoleesa Rice around the north west with a megaphone when she visited the UK a few years back.

    I've told him about a friend's Dad in the 80s who was driving in to Agecroft collier and the line of thugs (aka more militant miners and unionists mostly from outside Lancashire) through a breeze block through the windscreen, hospitalising 2 of the 4 passengers.

    He condones it, as tacking the scabs.

    He's a good mate, nice fellow, very respectable. I really don't get the way his pent up anger manifests itself in to this physical force against people even on his own side of the argument.

    It is quite marked, that when you have a Tory Conference, you don't get a LibDem mob outside heckling with placards.
    It's always a Socialist Worker's Party Group, or of that ilk.

    When it's a Labour conference, you don't get a posse of rabid Tories outside harassing the MPs and delegates as they go about their business.
    Ironically you still get the same Socialist Worker's Party Groups - ask Luciana Berger.

    There is I suppose a nutjobs strand on the right that have potential to be similarly aggressive, EDL and the Tommy Robinson strand if you will. But the numbers and the frequency are relatively low.

    I've not heard of a Stop the War march stopped by a large bunch of EDL skinheads.

    It really is because they political have this "brothers / comrades in a struggle" approach. It's almost a cultish, religious fervour approach to their politics.

    I have strong feelings and I put forward my opinions, but I can't see myself walking down the road with a placard for a particular cause, let alone turning up to protest against another protest.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
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  7. #97
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    An anecdote for all you Farage enthusiasts out there.

    It concerns an acquaintance of mine who thinks the EU is dreadful, and would be very happy for us to leave with No Deal: an obvious Brexit Party voter, you would think. But when she eventually went to the polling station at 9.30 yesterday evening, she decided to spoil her ballot paper because she finds Farage so repulsive.
    In his lifetime he suffered from unreality, as do so many Englishmen.
    Jorge Luis Borges

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonykay View Post
    An anecdote for all you Farage enthusiasts out there.

    It concerns an acquaintance of mine who thinks the EU is dreadful, and would be very happy for us to leave with No Deal: an obvious Brexit Party voter, you would think. But when she eventually went to the polling station at 9.30 yesterday evening, she decided to spoil her ballot paper because she finds Farage so repulsive.
    It's her choice of course.

    I've been Tory all my life (until this month) and a Brexiteer.

    But I don't like Fox, I don't like Grayling, I don't like Gove.

    I defy anyone to like everyone in their party of choice and I suspect everyone has people in their party of choice that they have strong objections to.

    Ultimately I go for the party that represents my view, not the person or leader. Vote for Cameron in 2015 and he wasn't around long, likewise with Blair in 2005, Wilson in 74.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by CL View Post
    I've got more lives on this forum than a cat. But seriously I think Brett has done a pretty good job over the years in allowing most said things through.

    In regard to Nigel Farage I think he's a thoroughly decent chap who has stood up for millions of unhappy voters who don't have anyone to speak up for them. And what does he get for it. Vicious accusations of being a racist. And why. Because he wants a fair and reasonable immigration system as well as being a patriot. But here's my beef. The people who accuse him and his party of being racists want controlled immigration as well. They self righteously pretend virtue and tolerance but really they agree with controlling numbers into the UK. So I ask the question to the Farage snipers 'do you believe in open borders.' And instead of answering a serious point and making an interesting conversation on here possible they make silly snipes. That's cowardice.


    So you think Farage and his party are racist. Well come on here and tell us you want open borders to the UK then we can consider that point.
    We've already established that some countries have immigration policies that restrict people coming into them based on some criteria. In fact, I can't think of any country that has an "open border" policy as you put it. And I'm not calling the leaders of many of these countries racist (Trump being the exception here, I think he'd be offended not to be regarded as racist).

    I think the reason people call Nigel Farage a racist is because they think he's a racist. In this respect it's a perfectly reasoned viewpoint to say both "I would like some sort of immigration policy" and "I think Nigel Farage is a racist".
    No longer "resting"

  10. #100
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    Farage for me, tactical voting, but he's got the balls to say what he feels in Europe.

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