New PM

[Oracle]

One, Mrs May and she was voted for in 2017 when a General Election gave the Tories the biggest number of MPs.

With a mandate that clearly said " no deal better than bad deal"

Meanwhile EU has no negotiatior. They refuse to negotiate.

[bigfella]

Immigration from the more economically equivalent EU nations has never been a problem, but with the expansion it became an issue although not on the same scale as non-eu immigration. For many its not immigration itself that's a problem just the strain it puts on our infrastructure and to some extent a failure to integrate.

Economically many would argue that immigration is a good thing but that would not seem to be a sustainable model.

Heart says Johnson, head says Hunt.

[Oracle]

Immigration from the more economically equivalent EU nations has never been a problem, but with the expansion it became an issue although not on the same scale as non-eu immigration. For many its not immigration itself that's a problem just the strain it puts on our infrastructure and to some extent a failure to integrate.

Economically many would argue that immigration is a good thing but that would not seem to be a sustainable model.

Heart says Johnson, head says Hunt.

For most of us it is simply numbers.

You cannot have 500000 coming if the best you can do is 100000 homes,
And worse, many of those want to live in London,

Non Euro differs from eu, in that EU is uncontrollable. There is no limit. No ability to plan.

And the existence of migration is proof of a structural fault in EU, namely the Euro, whicb hurts those states from whom they leave , as much as those they Join.

If EU were capable of introspection, they would wonder why everyone prefers to come here , compared to the states the come from, so we end up with the problem others do not.

Freedom of movement should result in population mingling. The result of mass migration is a proof of failure of EU

[Dave_Mole]

With a mandate that clearly said " no deal better than bad deal"

look up that word "mandate" again, will you?

[noel]

For many its not immigration itself that's a problem just the strain it puts on our infrastructure and to some extent a failure to integrate.

I think I understand this argument on a logical level, but on average aren't immigrants working and paying more into the system than they're taking out? What infrastructure are you meaning - presumably schools and hospitals? So is that a failure of planning?

I agree it's not a sustainable model. At some point the profitable immigrants of today become the elderly of tomorrow, so it's like a pyramid selling scheme. Having said that, so is the current demographic time bomb, irrespective of immigration.

But back to the topic in hand. I think Boris' campaign tactic of "say nothing because you'll almost certainly say something stupid" can't work throughout the entire leadership campaign. At some point he has to stop listening to his too conservative (with a small "c") advisers and start talking to people. Otherwise he risks having his lead eroded away through inactivity.

[Oracle]

Migrants don't bring accommodation

Many problems start right there.

And we too must be responsible: stealing professionals from other countries , because of EU dysfunction, harms those countries too. Stealing their young people causes them an even worse demographic timebomb

The goal of Free movement should result in population mixing, not mass moevement.

I think I understand this argument on a logical level, but on average aren't immigrants working and paying more into the system than they're taking out? What infrastructure are you meaning - presumably schools and hospitals? So is that a failure of planning?

I agree it's not a sustainable model. At some point the profitable immigrants of today become the elderly of tomorrow, so it's like a pyramid selling scheme. Having said that, so is the current demographic time bomb, irrespective of immigration.

But back to the topic in hand. I think Boris' campaign tactic of "say nothing because you'll almost certainly say something stupid" can't work throughout the entire leadership campaign. At some point he has to stop listening to his too conservative (with a small "c") advisers and start talking to people. Otherwise he risks having his lead eroded away through inactivity.

[Llani Boy]

The media,especially the BBC,is in full anti Boris Johnson mode trying to throw enough mud so some of it will stick in order to get the remainer "May in trousers" into No 10. Johnson does make it easy for them though.

However, every bulletin over the last few days reports that he "has failed to turn up" or "pulled out of" a planned debate. No he hasn't. These organisations are in such a frenzy setting up dates for debates etc and announcing it to the public, assuming, without having the decency to first ask if he would take part or be available. Then when he declines they spin it to make it look as he has let them down.
Johnson is smart and is, daily, speaking to the people who matter, the tory members and knows that he does not have to answer to the slimeball journos/reporters at the BBC/C4/SKY.
The majority of the 160,000 people who will vote can see through this and when he is PM he can get on with getting us out of the EU

[Oracle]

The media,especially the BBC,is in full anti Boris Johnson mode trying to throw enough mud so some of it will stick in order to get the remainer "May in trousers" into No 10. Johnson does make it easy for them though.

However, every bulletin over the last few days reports that he "has failed to turn up" or "pulled out of" a planned debate. No he hasn't. These organisations are in such a frenzy setting up dates for debates etc and announcing it to the public, assuming, without having the decency to first ask if he would take part or be available. Then when he declines they spin it to make it look as he has let them down.
Johnson is smart and is, daily, speaking to the people who matter, the tory members and knows that he does not have to answer to the slimeball journos/reporters at the BBC/C4/SKY.
The majority of the 160,000 people who will vote can see through this and when he is PM he can get on with getting us out of the EU

Spot on. The fact is - Boris is committed to endless hustings over the next week, so is appearing in live debate twice a day which involves travelling. Also did LBC this morning.

[Witton Park]

I think I understand this argument on a logical level, but on average aren't immigrants working and paying more into the system than they're taking out? What infrastructure are you meaning - presumably schools and hospitals? So is that a failure of planning?

I agree it's not a sustainable model. At some point the profitable immigrants of today become the elderly of tomorrow, so it's like a pyramid selling scheme. Having said that, so is the current demographic time bomb, irrespective of immigration.

But back to the topic in hand. I think Boris' campaign tactic of "say nothing because you'll almost certainly say something stupid" can't work throughout the entire leadership campaign. At some point he has to stop listening to his too conservative (with a small "c") advisers and start talking to people. Otherwise he risks having his lead eroded away through inactivity.

In my local area of Blackburn figures show we have around 5,000 net migrants from the EU in the last decade. That's a lot of houses.
We also have a "new" university. The demographics of the University of Blackburn aren't the same as the Russel Group with most students needing accommodation, but it still has it's fair share of students from away.

That's undoubted pressure on housing, but also on services as all these people need hospitals, GPs, dentists and many require schools, child care provision....

There are few models to show whether migrants on average are contributors and those that do show a very small margin, in the realms of 1-2% but what they fail to take account of are the cost of services absorbed by those migrants.

Then if you factor in the migrants that aren't here officially, that didn't come here to work, or declare they were here to work, it is unlikely that the demographics of the typical EU migrant is revenue positive to the exchequer.

Finally on Boris. Many politicians have reacted to media pressure over the last couple of decades. They are frightened to put forward a policy proposal without spinning it first to test reaction.

That he will not budge to media pressure is a plus in my opinion.

And as for "say nothing" there was a live broadcast of the West Midlands husting where Iain Dale interviewed him and he had about an hour on stage.
He did an interview with the BBC last night and LBC this morning.

He has another 15 Tory hustings to attend which I think are all available to watch for the general public and some of them are open to the general public.

He has TV slots with Question Time, ITV and Andrew Neil (I assume on the BEEB).

So I expect that in the next 3 weeks, we are going to have more than a gutful of Johnson and Hunt and the media pack chewing the cud over it all.

[noel]

There are few models to show whether migrants on average are contributors and those that do show a very small margin, in the realms of 1-2% but what they fail to take account of are the cost of services absorbed by those migrants.

Really, which models? I'm not doubting it, I just think we keep discussing this and I'm still of the view of a net monetary benefit of the type of migration that the UK has had recently, whereas you're still of the view of a net deficit. We need some figures to discuss. Let's reconvene when one of us has had some time to do some searching on this.