New PM

[Dave_Mole]

I have consistently argued that none of us should use the words "racist" "fascist"

I do accuse the EU of a neo fascist empire

would that be some kind of gentler, nicer, more inclusive fascist empire?

[Witton Park]

Charming!
To wit have I misled good sir?
Pray show how or honour demands you withdraw such dastardly accusation!

I think you know that was aimed at Mr Mole

[Oracle]

I think you know that was aimed at Mr Mole

Yes but we can all feign indignance and deliberately take things out of context :-)

[MattPo]

Oracle, you are breathtakingly arrogant and rude. Dominating a Fell runners forum. Get out and go for a run.

[Oracle]

Oracle, you are breathtakingly arrogant and rude. Dominating a Fell runners forum. Get out and go for a run.

With respect, it aint me doing the insulting. You are confusing me for Dave Mole. Ive been for me run.

[Oracle]

would that be some kind of gentler, nicer, more inclusive fascist empire?

One aspect of fascism is despotism: which by definition is exercise of power in a cruel way. It is also evidence as to whether a state is indeed fascist.

Ask the large number of old people in greece how they feel about multiple successive cuts to pensions which are now far too small to live on, leading to many foreclosures on energy so many of them now live completely without power. Tsipras wanted some help for them. The answer predictably was "nein" " das money train must leave for Berlin or Kaput" Same response you would get from a loanshark.
The IMF, and even EU now admit they were unnecessarily harsh in "making their point". So that was admission to cruelty as a show of power. These EU despots dont know when to stop. The rules matter more than people.

So no, the EU is neither kinder nor gentler and is offering the peoples of the Mezzogiorno the same "kind and gentle" "die for all we care, just so long as our rules are met, and the money leaves for germany on time " It also comes with menaces - a definite OR ELSE - "Or else we will fine you so we get even more money for the gravy train, and they will have even less money to starve on. "

We will also cut off support from ECB to bank of italy, so capital controls will start. (or that is what they did in Greece, I assume they will do in italy if it challenges). What charming despots they are.. SO just like greece the pensioners will not be able to get at their savings even.


Is that an EU you want to belong to? I dont. I am ashamed to belong to an organisation that puts its ideology and stupid rule book so far ahead of its people.

But you are right I suppose, the cries of pain are too far away to hear, and an irrelevance to those who want cheap holidays and bianchi bikes. (footnote....remainers can have their cheap holidays and bianchi bikes even if we are not in EU, but most remainers have never researched the EU - so whats the reason to remain again? I have yet to hear a good one.)

[Dave_Mole]

the insistence you have that "reich" or "fourth reich" carries association with "Nazi" - and all those dreadful implications of antisemitism, homophobia are not automatic as you presume from limited study of history

You’re like a dog with its own pool of sick with this, aren’t you?

Let’s make this nice and simple…..You used the phrase Fourth Reich, along with other imagery (“attempting to annexe a part of our land”, “scorched earth” and allusions to “train load of cash to Berlin”) associating the EU with Nazi Germany. Your defence has been that “reich” means empire. Here’s the thing: as has been pointed out on more than one occasion, the phrase “Fourth Reich” is a neo-Nazi concept associated with Aryan supremacy, anti-Semitism, Lebensraum, aggressive militarism and a return to pre-1937 German borders. So, in both cases you’re directly associating the EU with Nazis. When the offensiveness of this was pointed out to you, your reply was that it was “Not offensive at all”. And continued to use it. Until it was pointed out to you that, by connecting the EU to Nazism, you were implying that they were, indeed, anti-Semitic and homophobic, along with all of the other things you accuse them of. Which provoked something of a response. Because you really had no idea what you were doing.

But you carry on. Suggesting that “reich” means empire, that you didn’t compare the EU to Nazi Germany and generally trying to dissemble. Then you threaten people. And insult the forum admins.

But now you’ve settled on the word “fascist” to describe the EU. A case in point:

Fascist is a word far better applied of an undemocratic authoritarian EU that refuses to even negotiate

You seem to think that calling people fascist is bad, but calling organisations it is fine. Because to you, that’s somehow logical. You seem to think that any organisation which is “Authoritarian, undemocratic, dictatorships intolerant of any dissent” is fascist. And then accuse people of using the word indiscriminately. Well, here’s another thing, fascism is associated with extreme nationalism. So, I’m wondering, how can an umbrella organisation for 28 separate states somehow be nationalistic? I’ll leave aside the elected membership and fixed term presidency, as this is clearly authoritarian and undemocratic.

[Oracle]

That is your last insult to me.
You really are in last chance saloon.

Your defence of the despotic behaviour of EU towards greek pensioners is?

I would remind you that means "excercise of power in an unnecessarily cruel way" and is evidence of fascism.

IMF and EU now admit their treatment of Greece "making their point" was unnecessarily harsh - and they did so in full knowledge that the imposition of EU terms would result in pensioners having no power and many no food.

They ignored Tsipras'specific plea to give enough headroom to spare at least some of them and give them access to some power. The answer was "nein, send us the money or Kaput" . So EU exercised power in an unnecessarily cruel way. And then did the Kaput by withdrawing support of ECB, so even the pensioners with savings could not access them.
QED

Ditto their present treatment to Italy.

Lets hear you defend an organisation that cares more about its rule book than the well being of its people.

The EU knew when it set up the Euro it would cause misery. Every previous union ha had failed. The architects of it told them (I quoted them earlier) that unless certain criteria were met (on fiscal convergence) it was headed for disaster: the smae people now say the card tower will collapse.

The EU knew when it took on Greece it did not meet the rules. It now punsishes greece for the inevitable consequence of its own stupid decision to allow Greece in. Megalomania is sadly too strong for the despots of the EU.

But EU did it ignoring the "Unless" because it was the way ot centralize power which they did at any cost.

The least they can do if they must impose a broken currency is deal with some of the hardships it causes. But they wont.

I dont want to be in an EU that cares more about rules than hardship of people. And provably "exercises power in an unnecessarily cruel way". Ie Despots.

You’re like a dog with its own pool of sick with this, aren’t you?

[Oracle]

Anyway. I dislike the flow of insults. So.

Undetected I slipped away, my house at last grown still

[Stagger]

Please reconsider Oracle.

Your views make interesting reading and you show a good knowledge.