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  1. #31
    Master TheHeathens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    A man who will capitulate to brussels accepting their totally artificial red line of no renegotiation of their totally unreasonable draft?
    Yes brussels needs a useful idiot.
    Someone totally without sense like Stewart.

    Precisely because the house failed to stop "no deal " again, and with a brexiter almost inevitable now ,the EU finally show some movement: the least it can, as late as it can. It would NEVER do that for stewart.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...-latest-update

    The only way to deal with brussels is to say hardline and mean it.
    And I think we should no deal. Then talk to brussels about whether they want one. No loss if they dont. They are ideological half wits.

    WHo remembers the first thing they did after A50 - not only refuse to discuss trade (in complete contravention of A50) but also tell us we could not talk to any other country about it either. Then start the process of demanding money with menaces.

    That is not the act of a friend or ally. Or the acts of anyone wanting a deal.
    They can keep their fourth reich. Germany has a short memory. The money we let them off after WWII was staggering.
    Fooking hell, what world do you live in!? Fourth reich? Get a grip!

    Holding the Weimar Republic responsible for reparations from WW1 was one of the root causes of WW2!

    Why should the EU give the UK a special deal? We chose to leave. However, a hard Brexit will f*ck us over royally - I can't believe that any sane person advocates this.

    Even the staunchest Brexiteers didn't advocate it during the referendum; we were told that a trade deal would be the easiest deal in history.

    And people believed it......

  2. #32
    Master TheHeathens's Avatar
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    Funny that when we talk about unelected bureaucrats, talking about the EU commission, that we never reference the House of Lords.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHeathens View Post
    Funny that when we talk about unelected bureaucrats, talking about the EU commission, that we never reference the House of Lords.
    It's been a while.

    On both your points, terminology aside, there's no doubt that the setup of the EU has worked well for Germany so far.
    Advancement of the Single Market in goods, not services.
    The Customs Union - excellent for goods - not services.
    The Euro = keeps the Germans trading at an artificially low exchange rate, gives them access to 25 countries that use it without currency exposure.
    It couldn't have been much better designed had the Germans been wholly in charge.

    and on the Lords, it's not so likely we will discuss them in a thread on "New PM" or other political threads on here, but you'd probably find quite some support for reform, whether on this forum or out in the country at large.
    I personally value the experience of many of the Lords even if I disagree with them. Lilley and Heseltine from politics, Digby Jones and Alan Sugar from business, Robert Winston from medicine...

    But the huge numbers of political appointments has got out of hand. I would like to see a democratic link, a larger independent element to it, and a way of retiring some of them to ensure numbers and balance are sensibly maintained.
    It would have to be a carefully crafted system though, as I wouldn't want just another Commons.
    Richard Taylor
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  4. #34
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    What are you trying to prove?
    If you want to argue for the sake of it be my guest, I can't be bothered.
    I thought some might be interested in how the macroeconomics of the EU works, or in reality fails abysmally.


    I can only observe you are just like every other eurocrat.
    You argue exactly the same falasy as they do. Disagree with detail in the hope that nobody notices it is still an elephant even if it stands one inch shorter.

    When told for example " 200 million is an outrageous waste of money" in moving the travelling circus to Strasbourg on the gravy train, they will call it fake news , call you a liar, call it a total smear, then hide deep in fine print where they hope you will not read it, it is only 180 million

    Which of course is still just as an outrageous waste of money. It is still an elephant even if smaller. They still are depriving people in objective poverty in south italy of that money which coudl have done good, instead of overfeeding eurocrats. In arguing detail they confirm the generality.
    The EU sucks.

    I will wager you knew nothing about youth unemployment in Italy. Your first contact with it at all will be trying to counter someone whose conclusion you do not like.
    Salvini knows. He hears the cries of pain. The investigative journalists do who wrote ( the best selling book) "the south is dying". When confronted with the disaster that the Euro has caused, you pretend that by shaving a few points it is therefore somehow ok? Do You think It is no longer an elephant if you make it one inch shorter?

    As for one other poster saying it is "somethign to do with taxcuts" perhaps he might consider that the reason the professionals are leaving is because of the levels of tax and low levels of pay. Some of my tenants were italian professionals - now friends - who were escaping the south for that very reason. Thats part of how I know how desparate it all is.

    The reality is: arguing against my figures is Total b@ll@x. The youth unemployment however it is misrepresented as slightly smaller or bigger, even if it halved is still a humanitarian disaster on epic scale that proves your precious Euro itself, is a disaster designed by your precious EU, and you simply cannot support EU if you care about people. End of. Study the mezzogiorno, or stay as a remainer ostrich. Your choice.

    Like every other remainer you should study the facts. They are alarming.
    Meanwhile the next trainload of money is due in Berlin. Read target 2 figures to rpove it. The fact they no longer use trains to shift banknotes and computers do it instead, does not ease the pain the latest "empire" inflicts on its peoples.

    And Italy will suffer yet more. Before finally crash out as it must. The minibot will morph into a new currency when brussels turns up the thumbscrews. It is unsustainable. Italy has barely grown since it joined the EU. In real terms it has collapsed. EU is a disaster.

    The only reason I entered the threads: I wondered if any remainers knew? or whether any of them care?
    Do they turn a blind eye for the sake of a european holiday (they could have regardless of whether we are in or not?) Most of the pro EU arguments are fake. There are a couple of valid ones, but they are rarely if ever aired, and certainly not worth the downside. It is why Cameron and Osborne failed to put a positive case for EU. In cold hard detail it does not stack up.




    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Mole View Post
    Attachment 8757

    you might want to just make stuff up, but here's the data.

    And in any case, this isn't about me, it's about you: making stuff up, being generally misleading and not even denying Neo-Nazi sympathies.
    Last edited by Oracle; 16-06-2019 at 10:54 PM.

  5. #35
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    What I'm wondering is why Salvini isn't planning a referendum on whether Italy should leave the EU, since the country is clearly is clearly suffering so much as a result of EU mismanagement.
    In his lifetime he suffered from unreality, as do so many Englishmen.
    Jorge Luis Borges

  6. #36
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonykay View Post
    What I'm wondering is why Salvini isn't planning a referendum on whether Italy should leave the EU, since the country is clearly is clearly suffering so much as a result of EU mismanagement.
    You don't tend to plan a referendum unless you think your are going to win.

    The Italian Governments who had it all in their own hands in the past didn't have the best pre Euro track record and whilst they aren't so keen on the EU, many do like the Euro.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  7. #37
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    whilst they aren't so keen on the EU, many do like the Euro.
    They are not thinking of all of those "zero" manufacturers that are going out of business.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry View Post
    They are not thinking of all of those "zero" manufacturers that are going out of business.
    When I first went to Vietnam I bought £60s worth of Dong. I was a millionaire

    It puzzles me why such currencies aren't revalued with a 3 or 4 place move of the decimal point. Nothing less than 500 Dong is of any monetary value even in Vietnam and even at that you would be lucky to buy a paper clip.

    The minimum wage is around 500,000 Dong per week.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    When I first went to Vietnam I bought £60s worth of Dong. I was a millionaire

    It puzzles me why such currencies aren't revalued with a 3 or 4 place move of the decimal point. Nothing less than 500 Dong is of any monetary value even in Vietnam and even at that you would be lucky to buy a paper clip.

    The minimum wage is around 500,000 Dong per week.
    I was a millionaire when I changed £40 on entering Poland in 1994. A few years later the Poles did move the decimal point four places.
    In his lifetime he suffered from unreality, as do so many Englishmen.
    Jorge Luis Borges

  10. #40
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    Been a millionaire in Turkey in the 90s

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