Nigel or Boris for PM

[Witton Park]

But Swinson has been shown to be all bluster. She campaigned for leadership on Stop Brexit but her first question to PM was to ask that all EU residents in UK would have recognised status. I.E. she was behaving as if Brexit was a given rather than going for the BJ jugular. Pathetic! Maybe we will learn more at next PM question Time??

and she advised that if she did get her 2nd referendum and we voted leave, she wouldn't accept the result.
Then a couple of days later after receiving lots of flack, said she would.

I think Swinson will be a disaster for the LibDems and put them back to the single figure % eventually.

[Witton Park]

With the Tories going for a "hard Brexit" and Labour showing themselves totally incompetent, maybe it's time for a LibDem revival. There are 16 million Remain voters out there! The Brecon & Radnor by-election will be interesting.

It will be a binary election if there is one ( and I don't think there will be until after we have left in the Autumn)

2 parties on one side with Tories and Brexit Party.

4 parties on the other side with Labour, LibDem, Greens, NATS and TIGS.

So it will come down to whether or not they team up.

On the right, whilst I don't think Farage and Johnson will team up, there will be an unofficial understanding. I can't see the BP putting candidates against MPs supporting Brexit, even Labour ones.

On the left, I can't see this "Progressive" ( ) alliance coming through, because in Scotland and Wales they are all in competition.

I know PC Have stood aside in Brecon, but in a GE how can a nationalist party stand aside for unionists?

And across the UK the LibDems are in competition with Labour for many seats.

So in a GE I do think the Brexit side will come out better in our system.

One other dimension.

If there is to be an election, it will be because 20-30 Tories have rebelled. If that happens to cause Brexit to be delayed or to force a GE then I am sure their whip will be removed and they will be unable to stand next time as Tories.

Question is will they? When you see the likes of Grieve, Letwin, even ex Ministers like Hammond. I cannot see them potentially putting Corbyn at the head of a coalition with NATS and LibDems.

[noel]

Question is will they? When you see the likes of Grieve, Letwin, even ex Ministers like Hammond. I cannot see them potentially putting Corbyn at the head of a coalition with NATS and LibDems.

It's a pretty bleak picture from where I stand. I don't support Johnson's no deal policies but don't want a Corbyn government. What's left for the majority who don't like the current extremes?

[Muddy Retriever]

It's a pretty bleak picture from where I stand. I don't support Johnson's no deal policies but don't want a Corbyn government. What's left for the majority who don't like the current extremes?

I guess it depends on what you define as being extreme. As WP said, Jo Swinson who advocates a second referendum has said she wouldn’t accept the result if it again came out again in favour of Leave. Pretty extreme, no?

[bigfella]

It's a pretty bleak picture from where I stand. I don't support Johnson's no deal policies but don't want a Corbyn government. What's left for the majority who don't like the current extremes?

But if you respect democracy, we voted leave, albeit by a small margin. At least Johnson has committed to respect that result and if you are to negotiate then you need to be prepared to walk away. Parliament is highly unlikely to pass 'Mays' deal even with some platitudes in the text, so you really have to push very hard for a new / significantly modified withdrawal agreement and be prepared to walk away if the EU won't budge.

[Witton Park]

It's a pretty bleak picture from where I stand. I don't support Johnson's no deal policies but don't want a Corbyn government. What's left for the majority who don't like the current extremes?

If you strip out Brexit and really look at where the parties are, the extreme is the Labour front bench who are the most left Labour front bench for 30-40 years.

The Tories are still mostly centrist. Raab, Truss and Patel are perhaps the closest to the 80s Thatcherite but throw in Hancock, Rudd, Morgan.... who many Tory members and voters would see as closer to LibDem and you can see the overall balance is slightly to the right of centre, certainly not extreme.

[Witton Park]

The terminology "No Deal Brexit" is beginning to grate.

"Deal" refers to a Free Trade Deal.

We cannot leave with a Deal - it is impossible as the EU refuse to discuss it until we leave.

So the terminology should be a "No Withdrawal Agreement Brexit".

If we had passed the WA, a No Deal Brexit is still a distinct possibility, especially in the eyes of the EU, demonstrated by their insistence on the backstop and their refusal to time limit it.

So ironically, a "No Withdrawal Agreement Brexit" would have a good chance of leading to a deal quicker than if we passed the WA.

and for those who suggested that we had never considered leaving without a WA or a deal.....

It was certainly discussed in Parliament and was even built in to the legislation.
The Referendum Act (Section 7)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...tion/7/enacted

Which led to this
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Accessible.pdf

and this
https://assets.publishing.service.go...pean_union.pdf

and this
https://politick.co.uk/rights-and-ob...eu-membership/

The 3rd link - Process for Withdrawing - is the key one as it is linked to the White Paper published pre referendum and debated in the Commons.

“If the UK was to reach the end of the two year period specified by Article 50 without having reached an agreement… this would lead to the UK leaving the EU with no immediate replacement agreed, without any protection under EU law… "

All the wrongly termed "No Deal" information is set out, had been debated in Parliament and the various laws and acts have been passed both prior to and post referendum.

So any MP that acts numb, as if there was no consideration for the situation looming are telling lies, because in some cases they have passed Acts of Parliament and taken part in debates where all this was aired.

[Graham Breeze]

The terminology "No Deal Brexit" is beginning to grate.

"Deal" refers to a Free Trade Deal.

We cannot leave with a Deal - it is impossible as the EU refuse to discuss it until we leave.

So the terminology should be a "No Withdrawal Agreement Brexit"...

Well yes, but your suggestion has 4 words and that is huge step up from a nice, simple 3 word slogan: which would surely challenge the many, if not the few.

Perhaps our politicians should have reduced this momentous decision to a single word choice: say "certainty" (risible) or "uncertainty" (realistic) - although the 11 letters in uncertainty would be an intellectual stretch for some of those purportedly leading the country.

[DrPatrickBarry]

Loving BoJo's N.I. itinerary, flew in last night to have dinner with the DUP. A quick token meeting with each of the other parties this morning then out of the place by lunchtime without ever leaving Belfast. Could not risk visiting the parts of N.I that are going to be really effected by the food traceability/hygiene checks that will have to be put in place due to this debacle.

[noel]

If you strip out Brexit and really look at where the parties are, the extreme is the Labour front bench who are the most left Labour front bench for 30-40 years.

The Tories are still mostly centrist. Raab, Truss and Patel are perhaps the closest to the 80s Thatcherite but throw in Hancock, Rudd, Morgan.... who many Tory members and voters would see as closer to LibDem and you can see the overall balance is slightly to the right of centre, certainly not extreme.

I agree Labour has gone very left (on the scale of UK politics). On a scale of Tony Blair being 1 to Lenin being 10, I'd be interested to hear where people think they stand currently.

I also think the Tories are more right than they've been for a long time. May was already to the right of Cameron, and I think the current cabinet is to the right of May, Major and Hague (I think Major and Hague have recently spoken about this).

I also suggest, as a right-leaning voter yourself, you'd be less likely to regard a movement to the right as being extreme.