Public Transport

[Travs]

On a very marginally related topic (I.e the cost of car travel)... both myself and my father got our car tax letter through in the last few days...

My father has a 1.2 litre hatchback diesel with a power I’d estimate in the region of 80-90bhp, and it does 69mpg. His car is only a few years old.

I’ve got a 2litre 215bhp rocket (in comparison) which does 0-60 in about 6 seconds, 7 years old and does 46mpg. My tax for the year is £20 less than his....!

Not complaining, just a bit more inconsistency. I fail to see in any way how this can be logical.

[DangerMouse]

Some really great posts here - thank you everyone!

Totally agree about the bargain bucket advance tickets - I do this too! Well, it's the only way my travel to see friends is going to happen, that or I do like others do and just get a car again.

My point is that these kinds of fares should be available to everyone, not those of us who are relatively free to pick and choose the times we travel a lot of the time.

Isn't it crazy that we have these massive conflicts of intent and inconsistencies littered everywhere throughout the transport systems and the related meta-systems too. Pollution, car tax, ticket fares, quality of service in different areas, etc. To me this adds up to just more evidence that our transport systems are fundamentally broken and our government is not doing the job we employ them to do properly. There's loads of discussions to be had here, I am not sure where to start.

A note on free public transport:

A free public transport system doesn't have to be a completely unfettered free-for-all system.

One thing I have been very impressed with is the Oyster Card system for public transport in London. I really appreciate how you just use it without caring which ticket to buy and the more journeys you do the cheaper it gets so that you never end up paying more than the cost of a 'day ticket'. Conversely, just make one journey and just be charged for the single ticket. Super smart!!

So, how about a system where everyone has a card (I think from that article about Estonia the equivalent is the Residents Card) that allows you one free commute (by that I mean a return) or single journey, A to B, per day. After this you need to pay a standard fare to get another 'journey'. The standard fares could be nominal and banded based on actual milage, say short, medium and long journeys. The technology to do this clearly exists!

I think this would go some way to stopping abuse or misuse of the system.

I've probably got loads more to say here, but this will do for now

[PeteS]

On a very marginally related topic (I.e the cost of car travel)... both myself and my father got our car tax letter through in the last few days...

My father has a 1.2 litre hatchback diesel with a power I’d estimate in the region of 80-90bhp, and it does 69mpg. His car is only a few years old.

I’ve got a 2litre 215bhp rocket (in comparison) which does 0-60 in about 6 seconds, 7 years old and does 46mpg. My tax for the year is £20 less than his....!

Not complaining, just a bit more inconsistency. I fail to see in any way how this can be logical.

Personally, I think the whole concept of vehicle excise duty is outmoded. A 'pay as you pollute' policy would be far more effective. Take my campervan which attracts the largest tax bracket. I do perhaps 3000-4000 miles a year as I commute by bike and we have a small Toyota (no tax) that we use to get about locally.
The company I work for has 2 VW T6s - the same base vehicle as my van - and they do 3000 miles in just 2 weeks. Of course they pay far more tax on diesel purchase but the idea that the excise duty is a tax on higher polluting vehicles is a farce.

[PeteS]

Some really great posts here - thank you everyone!

A note on free public transport:

A free public transport system doesn't have to be a completely unfettered free-for-all system.

One thing I have been very impressed with is the Oyster Card system for public transport in London. I really appreciate how you just use it without caring which ticket to buy and the more journeys you do the cheaper it gets so that you never end up paying more than the cost of a 'day ticket'. Conversely, just make one journey and just be charged for the single ticket. Super smart!!

Of course you can just use a contactless debit/credit card on the tube now as well.
Birmingham's buses are also utilising this method and you will only ever be charged the maximum of a day ticket (which is around the same as 2 journeys.)
Unfortunately, Brum's city centre is a bit of a building site (as ever!) and this is impacting travel times especially from the West of the city. Perversely the biggest impact is probably from the extension to the tram down the A456 Hagley Rd.

[Llani Boy]

[QUOTE=DangerMouse;653860]Some really great posts here - thank you everyone!


So, how about a system where everyone has a card (I think from that article about Estonia the equivalent is the Residents Card) that allows you one free commute (by that I mean a return) or single journey, A to B, per day. After this you need to pay a standard fare to get another 'journey'. The standard fares could be nominal and banded based on actual milage, say short, medium and long journeys. The technology to do this clearly exists!

Sounds like a good idea Dangermouse but it will never happen.

Why?

Because all the do gooders and civil rights brigade will call it an I.D card. Oh, no,no,no, we can't have that!

[PiesAreGood]

Well yes. I tend to book aeroplanes some way in advance as well.

My point is that not everyone thinks the railways are rubbish. And railway companies use a similar business approach to the employers of most people posting on here - but of course we don't hear so much about that.

Graham, I also like the trains and much prefer to travel by train than car whenever possible. I travel to work by train, and yes, frequently the train is delayed by 5-10 mins and every so often there is a big delay when something happens. If I took the car though, at least on my route, I am certain that there are/would be traffic jams/accidents/hold ups more often than there are delays on the train.

The train isnae perfect but its better for the environment and much more pleasant to sit reading a book or dozing on the train that getting angry in a traffic jam.

Nevertheless, the pricing structure still irks me when I have to make a longer journey. I really do not think it is fair to have two people sitting next to each other making the same journey on the same train and one pays much more than the other just because one could book 2 months in advance and the other had to buy a ticket the day before.

I do act according to my personal ethics in work and I do complain about employers and companies who I think act badly.*

*I don't claim to be perfect / rational or always act consistently though. Share prices can go up and down...

[Travs]

Unfortunately, Brum's city centre is a bit of a building site (as ever!) and this is impacting travel times especially from the West of the city. Perversely the biggest impact is probably from the extension to the tram down the A456 Hagley Rd.

I made the mistake of attempting the journey from our old office (Jewellery Quarter) to our new office (Merry Hill), directly down the Soho Road and past the West Brom ground, on a Friday afternoon, a couple of weeks ago... congestion awful. It actually took longer than it takes me on a normal morning all the way from Cov via M6/M5...!

[Travs]

My “polluting level” must be through the roof with all the travel to Snowdonia/Lakes I do...!

[bigfella]

Allegedly diesels put out more bad things than petrol cars. Personally I would get rid of car tax altogether and add a bit more tax to fuel, that way you are paying to use your car and not simply own it.

[DangerMouse]

The environment, pollution and fossil fuelled transportation systems are obviously very strongly linked.

I kinda like the idea of taxation on use, that makes a lot of sense; gas guzzlers inherently cost more to run than the super efficient eco cars so actual use comes a matter of conscience in terms of impact on the environment and the bank balance, the latter being the one that most folk are going to pay real attention to. This does nothing to stop rich folk from running their V12 Bentleys all day long, but at least they would be contributing significantly to the public transport purse.

I suggest the actual solution is the abolishment of fossil fuelled transport systems altogether