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Thread: Coronavirus

  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    But that is where I disagree.
    The fact is the medics had differing opinions, and they still do. So at the time that decision was taken, it seemed sensible. Boris didnít take the decision, his respected medical advisors did.

    Even if it proved ill advised in hindsight, it didnít in advance. It still could be that the formula followed proves to be the minimum death route. Nobody will ever know. So the word silly is at best unfair, at worst unjustified.
    If a decision turns out to have been wrong, but only in hindsight, then people justify that decision - if it was wrong on the basis of information available at the time, then people deny having made that decision. This is what the government is doing. They know they made a bad - "silly" - decision.
    I know life only makes sense backwards, I know what it is like to have to make decisions with very little information to go on.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry View Post
    All the best to BoJo, but it is poetic justice after the dog's dinner he done in handling it.
    "but"
    The first 5 words Pat fine, but I'd delete the post. It's shameful.
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  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    "but"
    The first 5 words Pat fine, but I'd delete the post. It's shameful.
    Spot on WP.

  4. #264
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    I see no evidence of that, only spin, as yet the government may well have plotted the minimum death way through.

    I do see the presumed right of some experts to broadcast only they knew the truth and the government ignored them, which it has to do because they all disagree.

    For one thing there is no one size fits all. Comparing societies does not help.

    Why is India and Pakistan not awash? The density of population, dirtiness, generational mix living together, lack of social distance implies they would be awash, they are not.

    The possible answer I hear from informed sources is that CV is not the killer. It is what is called cytokine storm, which is the bodies own immune response attacking itself. So the difference between cleaner western societies and dirtier southern and eastern, is that the body is far more exposed to inflammatory sources in some societies , and so does not overreact. Which is also why I understand western societies suffer more allergic conditions. It is not specific immunity some societies have, but defence against the worst body reactions to it, because of continued exposure.

    If that is true all societies are unique. So attacking the government on the basis of what others do or have done is an irrelevance.

    I still see no evidence of bad decisions. They left the braking till later, and hit it hard when they did. It’s how racing cars win in minimum time. Nobody will ever know if they could have done better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T View Post
    If a decision turns out to have been wrong, but only in hindsight, then people justify that decision - if it was wrong on the basis of information available at the time, then people deny having made that decision. This is what the government is doing. They know they made a bad - "silly" - decision.
    I know life only makes sense backwards, I know what it is like to have to make decisions with very little information to go on.
    Last edited by Oracle; 07-04-2020 at 09:57 AM.

  5. #265
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    I was a bit dazed last night by the news on Boris.

    This morning I'm feeling slightly emotional. My head is in a bit of a spin.

    I'm trying to recall when I last felt like this for someone who I don't really know. I think it was Ayrton Senna.
    But really I do feel like I know Boris.

    He's always seemed larger than life, confident, exuded an infectious "can do" attitude.

    I think we'll need his positivity to pull through this as a country and I have everything crossed for him to pull through.

    I think I need a long walk on the hills
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    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
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  6. #266
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    He is also a good communicator. When you meet him he is one of these people that makes you feel your opinion really matters to him. He is also a deep thinker not the buffoon his enemies prefer. He should have taken over instead of May.

    It is appalling how some lefties are turning on him on social media.



    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    I was a bit dazed last night by the news on Boris.

    This morning I'm feeling slightly emotional. My head is in a bit of a spin.

    I'm trying to recall when I last felt like this for someone who I don't really know. I think it was Ayrton Senna.
    But really I do feel like I know Boris.

    He's always seemed larger than life, confident, exuded an infectious "can do" attitude.

    I think we'll need his positivity to pull through this as a country and I have everything crossed for him to pull through.

    I think I need a long walk on the hills

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    I was a bit dazed last night by the news on Boris.

    This morning I'm feeling slightly emotional. My head is in a bit of a spin.

    I'm trying to recall when I last felt like this for someone who I don't really know. I think it was Ayrton Senna.
    But really I do feel like I know Boris.

    He's always seemed larger than life, confident, exuded an infectious "can do" attitude.

    I think we'll need his positivity to pull through this as a country and I have everything crossed for him to pull through.

    I think I need a long walk on the hills
    You've encapsulated my thoughts. Fingers and toes crossed for him.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Why is India and Pakistan not awash? The density of population, dirtiness, generational mix living together, lack of social distance implies they would be awash, they are not.

    The possible answer I hear from informed sources is that CV is not the killer. It is what is called cytokine storm, which is the bodies own immune response attacking itself. So the difference between cleaner western societies and dirtier southern and eastern, is that the body is far more exposed to inflammatory sources in some societies , and so does not overreact. Which is also why I understand western societies suffer more allergic conditions. It is not specific immunity some societies have, but defence against the worst body reactions to it, because of continued exposure.
    This is beginning to look like a very significant point. I have just been looking at the table of COVID19 deaths (and deaths per million population) by country. It's all rich Western countries at the top, poor countries at the bottom (and even Spain and Italy, with all their economic problems, are still rich compared with the likes of South Sudan and Timor Leste at the bottom of the table).

    It's still too early to tell to what extent this is because the populations of richer countries are more mobile, so spread the virus faster. But I suspect that the major explanation may be what Oracle says about immune systems of poorer people being more used to dealing with nasty bugs, and so not over-reacting.
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  9. #269
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    Like, love or loath him, Boris is a capable leader and has had to steer this ship through uncharted waters with siren calls of experts to the left and to the right. That he has done so in a forthright manner, not ducking the painful calls when they had to be made, is typical of him and just what we need. The cytokine angle is very interesting and chimes in with the disease course seen in many hospitalised cases.
    Some of the left wing spouting on Facebook has been hideous and I had to unfriend a pal of 30 years standing because he kept on sharing it.

    We need togetherness more than ever right now.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeze View Post
    Some of the left wing spouting on Facebook has been hideous and I had to unfriend a pal of 30 years standing because he kept on sharing it.

    We need togetherness more than ever right now.
    I've deleted or unfollowed something like 40% of my facebook contacts in the last fortnight... basically anybody who fancies themselves as an armchair biologist/economist/politician, anyone who posts anything containing the words "stay the f**k at home", and anybody who tags me in any of those wretched chain-mail type things.

    As you can imagine, I've now got a very limited facebook feed!!

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