Coronavirus

[Oracle]

If you retired early having saved enough more power to you, so did I

If you are a public sector worker the numbers might interest you. Here based on a typical nurse or teacher earning £40000 to retire on pension of £20000 early. By retiring 10 years early you not only take £200000 more out, you also failed to make 10 years contributions of another £100000.
That is 300000 you never paid, me the taxpayer has to. Just to get you to 67. It is sheer greed.
Chances are you barely paid that in tax in your life.
Add in the 20 years after that at 200000 costs 400000 and allowing for index linking in browns disastrous savings rate destruction.,a 20000 pension actually costs another 800000. In short if you have taken more from the system than you ever paid, you are a parasite. Added to Half the population that pays no meaningful tax, or are net recipients.
Multiply that by 5 million public sector and we have a trillion pound problem.
No wonder governments are short of money.Public sector are screwing it.

All because brown destroyed return.

Most teachers nurses and doctors retire at similar age. ( doctors pensions outrageous)
They are not the worst offenders. Firefighters, police and MPs are worse.

The rest of us get screwed in the zero sum game. Your pound taken out, is one less for those who earned your salary.

As for “ my “ capitalism, that is the world we live in. You personally decide it every time you buy cheapest , or want better, fuelling the enterprise to fill demand. You buy from the enterprise that sells it better and cheaper. It is how the world is including you. I inhabit that world, and must survive in it.

The pretence of alternative is intellectual hogwash that beggared billions of Russians , east Europeans, Venezuelans, Chinese before capitalism and so on.

It is hypocrisy of those who are funded by capitalism to pretend they are not part of it.

WP, re worries about steel imports from Eastern Europe or China, short answer is both as they do not adhere to EU practice thru production. Result DEATH.

Oracle, various problems with cheap foreign labour, they send the money they earn back to their own country. and plan for the future e.g. QS with multinat uk co, with child, maternity ;eave, spends it in home country while building house in home country with hubby, then says ahm no comin back, nothing to do with leaving their country bereft of resource/talent just working the system as per the norm in the competitive world (including public service employees). Out for a run with my pal a couple of years ago, he's a blether, talks to any & everyone, we see a group of guys in hi viz around the elec pylons, turns out they are a group of phillipinos, they come over work for a few months, live in caravans, head home taking what ever money they can. I think this is a terrible way to live, away from family for months at a time, taking money out our system, oh but its capitalism, the system you love, oh and I'm 58 and retired.

[Dave_Mole]

Firefighters, police , nurses, teachers.

all so evil and greedy!
Draining the economy!
Selfish!

What an utter twonk.

[Derby Tup]

I feel it’s maybe time to move this thread on a little

If future insults, sorry posts, could be based on thoughts about what’s likely to happen over the coming months regarding the effect of the virus on the country, plus the realistic chance of a vaccine being found, that would be lovely

Thanks

[Wheeze]

I think:
We will need to finesse local lockdown performance.
We will need to perfect track and trace.
We will need to embed differential protectionism ranging from free living for no risk groups up to enhanced shielding for vulnerable groups.
We will need to return to and maintain a hygiene first life style (no spitting in public etc just like in the days of TB).

Meanwhile there will be variable and unpredictable developments in diagnosis, treatment and vaccination that we should not obsess about. Most of what will work will be down to lifestyle adaptations.

[Witton Park]

I think we will find ourselves just proceeding to unlock until restrictions become voluntary guidance.

I'm not sure we will need a vaccine.

[Oracle]

I feel it’s maybe time to move this thread on a little

If future insults, sorry posts, could be based on thoughts about what’s likely to happen over the coming months regarding the effect of the virus on the country, plus the realistic chance of a vaccine being found, that would be lovely

Thanks

Corona is serious. Sharing Who pays will become the problem.

I agree. about move on
I posted this : it would explain
A lot about what happened. No answers

My opinion on it is indicated here.

Something else accounts for country variation.
Tokyo has 30 million people all using the underground.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...CXjrvJB_te5zC4
(the nationalist fascist overtone in Japan is s pm comment is scary.)

Hong Kong has almost no cases

People like to blame Boris , but in realily something else accounts for the figures.

I could also suggest German corona “success ” has nothing to do with measures they took: more to do with the fact that Germany equipped Chinese manufacturing over the last two decades. A large flow of people between. So they have been more exposed to milder coronas. One of Germany’s now economic woes is China now copies not buys their stuff.

It might explain Portugal too. Here we have many Chinese shops and population where in U.K. late shops are often Pakistani . So a transit to and from China, topping up antibodies And transmitting mild coronas On every trip.

Is it why Spain suffered more? Less immunity than Portugal?

I’d be interested in miket views on above.

I am reminded of history, many indigenous amazon tribes were wiped out by conquistadores, not by their swords but by European pathogens to which they had no immunity. they probably blamed their leaders too for things outside control


That is the problem we have in north Europe. Less immunity even than Germany.

Understanding the problem is key to solution.

Vaccines take a very long time to test.

[Dave_Mole]

Here's something which perhaps all could agree on.

The NHS is 75 today.

In normal times it would be dealing with 1 million cases every 36 hours. All free at the point of contact.
Every day nurses, doctors and health care workers put their lives on the line in order to help the sick, infirm and disabled.
In England over 180 deaths in the health service have been attributed to covid-19.
Poor mental health, including stress and burnout, is one of the key factors for staff leaving the NHS. Last year 40% of staff reported feeling unwell from work-related stress. Staff earling less than £24,000, who make up 40% of NHS employees, are particulalrly hard-hit by work-related health conditions.

NHS staff have been working incredibly hard over these last few months and perhaps deserve some support and encouragement, as well as appreciation when they themselves fall ill or feel the need to retire.

Well done NHS!

[Derby Tup]

Agreed Dave

NHS staff have saved my life at least once in the last two years and possibly twice

There appears to be a huge amount we don’t understand still about C-19. Why some countries seem to have been much more badly affected than us is a big part of that. I’ve never been optimistic about a vaccine either plus I guess it’s possible to develop something only for the virus to have mutated and the vaccine to become redundant

[Stagger]

Remember that you workers don't negotiate their own pensions.

They only work to the schemes currently set up.

I'm in a superannuation not by choice. It was mandatory when I took the job.

[Oracle]

Agreed Dave

NHS staff have saved my life at least once in the last two years and possibly twice

There appears to be a huge amount we don’t understand still about C-19. Why some countries seem to have been much more badly affected than us is a big part of that. I’ve never been optimistic about a vaccine either plus I guess it’s possible to develop something only for the virus to have mutated and the vaccine to become redundant

It’s all testing DT. The time and populations needed are very long, even when a vaccine exists.

A little history. When Jenner had evidence that cowpox provided resistance to small pox, he gave , I believe his gardener a dose of smallpox to test the theory! In the modern day regulators will rightly not allow potential lethal pathogen infections to test the effectiveness.

So even after safety trials, for efficacy the testing has to be passive and conducted across representative ranges of race , age etc. In the US the trial sizes are horrendous, here not much better, then a placebo group are tested against the vaccine, and then waiting for a statistically significant exposure on a virus that is low incidence anyway. The press have way underestimated it. Only then should quantity be ramped up, normally it take years. Same problem with the exvivo tests : they were not tested properly and many don’t work well or at all.
So the testing numbers are largely illusion.

Mutation is then a problem as you say,

Reality is the general population are going to have to get on with it. Because for working age the risk is low. There can be no assurance of safety. Many more will die from hardship caused by economic fall out than did from the disease. We are headed into a financial catastrophe.

I also think we have had higher exposure / immunity than numbers imply, for reasons yet to be decided.