Coronavirus

[Graham Breeze]

Interesting question. Part of my work is for a local authority. Last year all employees were told that they were expected to have the flu jab and that anyone who didn't was 1. putting their colleagues at risk (the shaming gambit), and 2. had to contact the Head of their Service and HR to explain why they weren't having the jab (the threatening gambit).

It is an interesting question and the current Government stance can only be interim because (assuming the vaccine works etc) it begs future questions such as, perhaps, transition from obligatory face mask wearing etc between those that have had the vaccination and those that, for whatever reason, have not.

Perhaps the "nots" should carry a bell, have to call out "(potentially) unclean" and be branded "Enemy Of The People"?

As an ex-HR Manager who was involved with line management in the appointment/ promotion/ development etc of many people I was always interested in the power of group culture - and the consequences of developing a reputation for being "difficult" or "not one of us".

[Fellbeast]

It is an interesting question and the current Government stance can only be interim because (assuming the vaccine works etc) it begs future questions such as, perhaps, transition from obligatory face mask wearing etc between those that have had the vaccination and those that, for whatever reason, have not.

Perhaps the "nots" should carry a bell, have to call out "(potentially) unclean" and be branded "Enemy Of The People"?

As an ex-HR Manager who was involved with line management in the appointment/ promotion/ development etc of many people I was always interested in the power of group culture - and the consequences of developing a reputation for being "difficult" or "not one of us".

Another thing that as far as I know hasn't been cleared up yet is whether this vaccine will actually stop people carrying the virus or not. Hopefully it will but, theoretically at least, it's feasible that while it will stop 90% plus of vaccinated people suffering the effects of the virus it might not curtail the spread to others. If that proved to be the case I suspect a vaccination program might become more obligatory

[Flem]

As an ex-HR Manager who was involved with line management in the appointment/ promotion/ development etc of many people I was always interested in the power of group culture - and the consequences of developing a reputation for being "difficult" or "not one of us".

Bollox! That's where I went wrong.

[Witton Park]

Interesting question. Part of my work is for a local authority. Last year all employees were told that they were expected to have the flu jab and that anyone who didn't was 1. putting their colleagues at risk (the shaming gambit), and 2. had to contact the Head of their Service and HR to explain why they weren't having the jab (the threatening gambit).

Now I'm a kind of laid back, easy-going, never say-boo-to-a-goose, sort of guy ( )but that was a somewhat provocative mandate to me. I've never had the flu-jab, not because I'm an anti-vaxer or whatever, it's just that I'm fitter and healthier than many half my age and very rarely catch a cold (I know that's not making me infallible but I'll take my chances at this stage). Anyway, I didn't get the jab, told everyone I hadn't who asked me (my line mananger, etc) and wasn't/didn't contact anyone to explain my own health choices (but had a pre-prepared line of sturdy arguments to rebuff anyone who dared demand to know why I hadn't). Needless to say I wasn't challenged and didn't receive any sort of reprimand, which rather disappointed me if I'm honest.

I can't see the Government making it compulsory, but they might make some sneaky little ruling that bars those who haven't from access to something or other, using some sort of app (like that would work ).

Just to be clear again, I'm not an antivaxer and would have the covid jab if offered, albeit I might linger in the queue to see if others morph into some flesh-eating zombies first (note to self: remember to dust off the crossbow).

Aren't there legal consequences here?

Perhaps in a healthcare setting it can be deemed necessary to have the flu jab, but in a local authority I think they are going beyond what they are legally allowed to do.

Surely they haven't a right to even know what vaccines you have or haven't had.

[Llani Boy]

Will the Government make it a compulsory vaccination?

They couldn't even if they wanted to. For starters they haven't a clue how many people are in the country!

[Llani Boy]

Perhaps the FRA should add "vaccination certificate" to the list of Mandatory Minimum Kit required.

[Mossdog]

Aren't there legal consequences here?

Perhaps in a healthcare setting it can be deemed necessary to have the flu jab, but in a local authority I think they are going beyond what they are legally allowed to do.

Surely they haven't a right to even know what vaccines you have or haven't had.

You're right. And that would have been one of my lines of argument had I been challenged. I also suspect that explained why no one actually did challenge me.

However, Local authorities are well accustomed to exercising a high degree of totalitarian control over some of their employees, even outside of their hours of employment. For example, in order to work privately and set up my own business, I had to apply for permission to the senior management team at county-level, due to national rules about local authority employees and possible conflicts of interest ( if I recall these are detailed in something they called the 'Purple Book'). I had very little room to negotiate as they could have simply said 'no', with no appeal except to 'take-it-or-leave-it' and I realized my union would have taken a dim view, ideologically, of 'private enterprise' too. After months of waiting and regular badgering I managed to get agreement but with severe limitations on the geographical region I am able to work in independently, even though I only work part-time for the LA.

Indeed, most LA white collar employees aren't even allowed, officially, to do something as minor as a paid paper round without explicit consent - it's ridiculous. I often thought this was very unfair while other 'public' staff, for example, MPs and NHS staff appear to have free rein.

[Mossdog]

They couldn't even if they wanted to. For starters they haven't a clue how many people are in the country!

The surest way for the Government to achieve near complete UK sign-up is to use reverse psychology and claim it's only going to be prescribed to old, white, straight, guys....Oh, and Brexit supporters!

[Mike T]

Will the Government make it a compulsory vaccination?

No vaccinations are compulsory in the UK. There are quite a few people on social media saying they would decline the Corona virus vaccine - I suspect there will be plenty who are happy to have it in their place.

[Witton Park]

https://twitter.com/RP131/status/132...842178/photo/1

Twitter Richard's recent update of the 4 scenarios set out at the Saturday Downing Street Conference nearly two weeks ago.
2 have never been near. PHe/Cambridge and Imperial.
1 was tracking perfectly until they gave the kiss of death and published it at the press conference (London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine)
The 4th from Warwick undershot until the press conference, but is now looking like climbing away from the actual figures.

The deaths on the chart reflect early October infections, which was before even the Tier system kicked in.

His UK Infection chart based on specimen date and rolling average show cases have been flat since 20th October.

So hopefully the increases topped out just before the tiers came in.

The next few weeks will show us.

They'll also show us if the Government then try and claim it was their measures wot did it.