Coronavirus

[Travs]

I'm no lefty

I'm not hoping for a refund. I'll get one.

I paid for goods/services and they haven't provided them.

Exactly

[Muddy Retriever]

I think all here hoping for refunds should answer a bigger question. Do they want airlines or not?

The lefty campaign against such as Virgin Atlantic and easyJet dividend are outrageous

It isn’t just about being able to fly. Or that easyJet and virgin have succeeded with international income in a tough market against unfair competition

They should consider the billions of staff salaries these companies have paid , billions in staff tax and national insurance. The demand it has created at such as airbus and all their suppliers, and all the tax that flows from that

For a month they have had no income but eye watering costs. They are all now more or less insolvent. It wasn’t their doing.

Seemingly lefties just want them To go bust because of an illinformed argument about corporation tax.

The companies need grants not loans.
And as force majeure be allowed to give Much less than 100 percent refund

I don't agree with you on this. If a company isn't able to honour a contract then the other party is able to rescind it and get their money back, it's as simple as that. If there was a force majeure clause in the contract the airlines have made with their passengers, that would apply in this situation, then I'm sure they would be using it.

The airlines are having a rough time, no doubt about it. But there are companies up and down the land who are likewise. Lots of companies will go to the wall, that is guaranteed. It doesn't mean that we should suspend contract law. It is for the Government to decide whether it should bail out the airlines like any other industry, and I expect something will probably happen at some point.

And I don't think anybody would call me a lefty either.

[Wheeze]

It's just the thoughts of chairman McCarthy....err sorry, Oracle!😂

[Oracle]

I'm no lefty

I'm not hoping for a refund. I'll get one.

I paid for goods/services and they haven't provided them.

Would you collapse the company to get your refund?
Tell me. How does a company with no money pay you?

The company lost the money in cost with no revenue. It isn't deferred revenue.
The question is real. Ask virgin Australia. Someone will lose. But who should it be?
In the U.K. we don’t have chapter 11. So Virgin Atlantic could go that way too. When airlines collapse under U.K. law they cannot continue to fly, even to repatriate.

[Oracle]

It’s a simple question.
Would you rather accept pennies in pound or a collapsed employer?
It will be a real choice. Already is at Virgin Australia.

Collapsing all the employers in the name of your “ rights” will be a major own goal for society.

Society is playing a dangerous game of pass the parcel.
It’s ok so long as somebody ELSE loses.

People have yet to wake up to the size of the numbers.
Worse than Great Depression

In an equitable world the entire public sector should take a hit, but it won’t. It never does. Private sector has been told to pay for it all.
A large chunk of public sector are furloughed on full pay. So doing nothing of value.

If it all ends up at the banks, everyone has a problem.

I don't agree with you on this. If a company isn't able to honour a contract then the other party is able to rescind it and get their money back, it's as simple as that. If there was a force majeure clause in the contract the airlines have made with their passengers, that would apply in this situation, then I'm sure they would be using it.

The airlines are having a rough time, no doubt about it. But there are companies up and down the land who are likewise. Lots of companies will go to the wall, that is guaranteed. It doesn't mean that we should suspend contract law. It is for the Government to decide whether it should bail out the airlines like any other industry, and I expect something will probably happen at some point.

And I don't think anybody would call me a lefty either.

[anthonykay]

Maybe the fact that none of you are lefties is why you can't see the obvious solution. Lefties would just nationalise the airlines and spread the pain around the whole taxpaying population.

[Witton Park]

Would you collapse the company to get your refund?
Tell me. How does a company with no money pay you?

The company lost the money in cost with no revenue. It isn't deferred revenue.
The question is real. Ask virgin Australia. Someone will lose. But who should it be?
In the U.K. we don’t have chapter 11. So Virgin Atlantic could go that way too. When airlines collapse under U.K. law they cannot continue to fly, even to repatriate.

When you buy something you normally get the product as you pay for it.

Transactions have evolved over the years, but I would maintain I haven't bought anything. I ordered it and they failed to deliver but they took my money in advance in contemplation of completing the contract.

I'd have gone. They cancelled.

[Oracle]

Maybe the fact that none of you are lefties is why you can't see the obvious solution. Lefties would just nationalise the airlines and spread the pain around the whole taxpaying population.

With the “ lefty” remark, I was pointing out that lefties say they would collapse virgin, for no better reason than dislike of Branson. The eight thousand employees and billions in salaries and taxes are of no consequence to any of them. They have no idea where the money comes from that pays the NHS.

But even for righties , there is the valid question of the greater good served by keeping employers and airlines going. Most lose money so loans and deferral are not the answer. Emergency legislation limiting refunds to 25 percent could help.

Do people understand how airlines work? 20- 25 percent is fuel. And because customers hate fuel surcharges, they buy fuel futures many months ahead, since they can’t take delivery they have to buy their way out of the contracts at close to zero price in a crashing oil market. The money has gone.
Hundreds of millions for many airlines. So forward ticket vouchers are not an answer. They need grants and debt relief not loans.

[bigfella]

I recently read Bransons autobiography and he doesn't come across as a bad bloke at all.

[Graham Breeze]

It’s a simple question.
Would you rather accept pennies in pound or a collapsed employer?
It will be a real choice. Already is at Virgin Australia.

Collapsing all the employers in the name of your “ rights” will be a major own goal for society.

Society is playing a dangerous game of pass the parcel.
It’s ok so long as somebody ELSE loses.

People have yet to wake up to the size of the numbers.
Worse than Great Depression

In an equitable world the entire public sector should take a hit, but it won’t. It never does. Private sector has been told to pay for it all.
A large chunk of public sector are furloughed on full pay. So doing nothing of value.

If it all ends up at the banks, everyone has a problem.

As I have said before on here: the problem with anonymity, dear Oracle, is that everyone has an agenda but secrecy hides that. It is easy with riches to pontificate.

Virgin Atlantic has lost money for years and has few assets since it leases its aircraft. It does have value in its landing slots and if it goes belly-up another airline will buy them and probably hire lots of VA employees as well. So those who fly from Heathrow will still have lots of carriers to choose from.

You argue as though a company going bust is the apocalypse but if there is value in it someone will recognise that and step in and buy it, and if there isn't - why should individuals (maybe someone running a "one-man" business) prop up a vain (alleged) billionaire with their money?

Branson is a snake-oil salesman and always has been. But perhaps you have been his quest on Neckar?

For the avoidance of doubt. I haven't.