Here's a picture of that car on Snowdon: http://yfrog.com/kfrckauj
I'm not sad to have skipped this year's Peris, given the weather. Fingers crossed for a nice one next year!
Here's a picture of that car on Snowdon: http://yfrog.com/kfrckauj
I'm not sad to have skipped this year's Peris, given the weather. Fingers crossed for a nice one next year!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so - I usually love descents struggled yesterday. Taking a dive across a patch of grass (thank god there weren't any rocks!) on the way down Y Garn probably didn't help...Originally Posted by IainR
Credit to the guy who started down Glyder Fawr in front of me (probably ended up two places in front) who's descending technique was to sit on his bum and slide down the grass! It worked because he left me for dead.
Well done Daz, sure was wicked the descent off Glyder.
Ahhhhh the dreaded "first local" gremlin strikes again!!!! Well done on getting a well deserved trophy :-)
I've felt the wrath of this with Cader. I live in Brithdir 2 miles from Dolgellau and was told that first local is the catchment area of the highschool which basically is Dolgellau and any village within a 5 mile
In 2009 having only been running 2 months i was 25th and a clear first locall, and all that kept me going was the thought of winning that trophy. Come the pesentation "NO TROPHY THIS YEAR, we decided not to give it this year"
In 2010 I got 2nd in the race, got 2nd prize. Trophy was back this year and gave it to someone else because i was allready a prize winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Came back in 2011 got 6th and my fastest time on the course (with a very strong field) so was out of the overall prizes, so this trophy is mine I thought. Wrong!!!! "hope Ifan doesn't mind but we have to give the first locall trophy to a girl who did Cader today for the first time" she was well over 2hrs and in 80th (ish) good effort mind.
So despite my efforts the trophy has still escaped me :-(
I don't know I enjoyed it, its just good fun.
I don't think it should have been shortened, I know others do, and don't think it would have been in any other part of the UK bar Wales and to be honest the lack of proper fell races in Wales explains the general poor ability here. The lakes runners would have just sucked it and coped for sure. Running through the half you could see that people had grouped to the few who knew the way or could navigate.
We only have a few proper fell races left. The 1000m peaks is being increasingly marshalled, check pointed so route choice is now minimal if any at all, the Rhinogs has gone. If we want runners to come from around the UK to race the classic welsh longs then leave them be. Look at the numbers now for this race, 50? for one of the top 5 toughest fell races in the UK. At the start we were told full race and only got told otherwise at the lliwedd turn off, not even at PyP...chatting at the start everyone wanted to run the full.
The Carneddau is left, the Peris, but then what else? SO what if people get lost? In the peak, lakes it seems there is much more scope for letting people get lost cold and wet. I've been lost and DNF'd, cold, wet so what? get out, learn and get back.. The amount of races left in Wales where one really does need to get out a map and compass is few. It's almost a lost art now and recceing is the preferred option. So all that happens is people lose the recce'd line, don't know the rest of the hillside, can't navigate to get back and end up running in circles, meet someone else, repeat until the group coalesces to such a point they finally find a navigator.
Compare snowdonia races to the lakes? Numbers of longs? brutalness of races. Then look at how much stronger the general lakes runners are. Tuesday evening traily races are the highlight of the fell running calendar in North Wales where as the likes of Garn, Hebog, Cnicht, Peris et al..i.e. the classics, proper fell races struggle. In the Lakes they'd get much bigger numbers.
It's the organisers and marshalls call but whilst understandable I thought yesterday was just classic mild frontal weather. In fact great fun to be out in. The word attrocious was banded around, it looked bad, but in reality it can get way way worse than that. Once we'd done the glyders there is no more nav, swing up Lliwedd, then you can follow major tourist paths all the way to Bwlch Brnnog, climb Cynghorion and then get the descent and the race is done. Lliwedd would have been slippy and slow to be sure, but that's just a test of general mountain sense and foot placement.
Anyway think we should also shift to dibbers, save the marshalling then. Maybe Eryri could invest some of that £15k they have in the bank and purchase modern equipment. Then you wouldn't need a marshall at Lliwedd, just a dibber. Its fine for MM's so why not fell races?
In the ultra world 30-50% DNF rates are normal, maybe this should be the case in fell running, the onus is on the runner to be safe, if they get too cold, out of their depth, get out DNF, have a go again. Not for the organiser to tame a route for the lowest denominator.
No doubt this won't go down well, but that's my opnion on yesterday.
I don't know much about the racing situation in North Wales but I've done a few classic races there such as Carneddau, 1000m Peaks (although DNF), and Peris (although only half this year) I'd hate to think of them being undersubscribed and they deserve to be as popular as any Lakes/Peaks race. May try to get to the Black Mountains in a few weeks and will try to get to more in future.
Personally I like a bit of mixed weather. Always thought dealing with variable weather to be just part of the sport (a good part) and I don't consider going out in the conditions we had on the Peris to be a waste of time/too dangerous etc (I only did half though and felt fine at the end - it wasn't very cold) although I have some sympathy with the decision the organisers had to make. Great fun, and memorable. Plus a bit of compass work is great and part of the competition in fog etc - not just something for emergencies surely. s'pose it come under that dubious heading of 'mountaincraft' although I never really liked that phrase personally. 'Common sense' is probably better. As for getting lost - long may it continue: Tankys Trog is definately enhanced by the tales of people having wandered around for 5hrs in freezing blizzards on Bleaklow :thumbup:
S'pose if people don't experience bad weather occasionally then they won't develop the skills to help themselves if they really end up lost, cold, alone etc sometime.
Well done on your run - think you and your mate passed me as I was tottering off Glyder Fawr. you were going very well.
lot of sense there Iain & Will
even at my lowly level, I'd've been quite happy to do Lliwedd - I was "enjoying" it in the rain too, and the only reason I was getting cold was my slowness on the ascents - I had a spare dry top in my bag that I could've changed into to see me round
I think they probably dropped it due to how nasty it would've been for marshals
I'm on record as being gutted as to the loss of the Rhinogs race, as I've never got to run it, and would happily volunteer my services (such as they are) to help get it back on
the Lakes longs have benefitted from the LCT - perhaps a Welsh equivalent would help...?
Last edited by DazTheSlug; 04-09-2011 at 02:25 PM. Reason: agree with Will as well!
Scramble the rock face through the glare of morning sun — to run
Couldn't agree more Iain, you've raised some good points.
When I started fell running a couple of years ago I was expecting races like yesterday to be typical, but when I actually started racing I was surprised at how little I actually use a map and compass during a race. I think I'm right in saying yesterday is the first time I've had to use a compass during a race, and I've done a lot of races (most fortunately in good weather!). It's great that there are marshals that volunteer and give up their time to help out these events but surely it's taking away part of the fun of fell running when you're getting pointed around the whole route.
The weather yesterday was "bad" in the sense that it was raining and there was a fair bit of wind, but definitely not untypical or unusual for Snowdonia - as Iain says it could have been a lot worse. I also quite enjoyed being out in it and enjoyed the different atmosphere that weather like that gives a race.
I did Blisco Dash (up Pike o' Blisco) a few weeks ago in the Lakes. It was a short 6 mile jaunt up n down on a Wednesday evening with pretty much no advertisement and yet it attracted more runners than the half Peris yesterday. It's a shame as yesterday's race was fantastic and what I've always imagined as a "proper fell race".
Firstly well done Iain on your victory.Also agree that the race shouldnt have been shortened i ran with a vest nearly all the way and wasnt a problem.Fair enough visibility was poor and cost me 3rd place definately and given how strong i felt possible catching matt for 2nd due to poor route choices this is fell running its supposed to be tough.Brilliant event and brilliant route very much enjoyed.
Wondered how you'd got on, we'd just nipped back for a shower when you all came in. Well done for getting through that first half, if you don't know the course its a big disadvantage on the Peris so I was glad when Math and I got clear in the quarries and got into the cloud, getting across Elidir can be a bit of an issue if you don't know the features, and then if we could stay head to Glyder Fawr and get a good descent I thought we'd open up a gap. When the said it was shortened I was worried you could have got back on us as the rest of the course was quite runnable.
In fact just before we were turned off at the Lliwedd turn off I was thinking about how mild it was, so was quite taken back when we were told to carry on to the standing stone. Reckon it'll be a few years until I go for it again, still want to run 3:25 or so, which on a good day should be possible. I reckon I was on for a 3:35 ish in that weather, and to half way we were about on my usual schedule for a 3:30-3:40 ish finish.
I think the secret to the peris is to treat it as a race of two halves,take it steady to pen y pass and then pick up the pace along the miners track,a steady climb up lliwedd and snowdon and this should give you a strong run over cynghorion and to the finish.
I think Gavin bland took it easy up Elidir and just started to pick up the pace over the rest of the course on his stormin course record of 3:02
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