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Thread: Transgender

  1. #1

    Transgender

    No, I'm not lining up to get it chopped.

    Do you think transgender women, those who are born male, and eventually "become female", should be allowed to compete/participate in sports where speed size strength endurance etc etc are very important, with/against women?

    I think they should not.

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  2. #2
    Master Travs's Avatar
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    I think if somebody makes the decision to "become female", then they should have to accept that one of the drawbacks is that elite-level sport can no longer be available to them.

  3. #3
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    Are you aware that there was a somewhat tragic case relating to this issue involving a fell runner? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska
    In his lifetime he suffered from unreality, as do so many Englishmen.
    Jorge Luis Borges

  4. #4
    Master Travs's Avatar
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    I was aware of that case. I'd heard "rumours" that it was linked to a transgender issue, but never looked at the full details.

  5. #5
    I was not aware.
    Interesting. But it doesn't really answer my question.

  6. #6
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    In the interest of fair play, No.

    That's why World Rugby came to the decision they did!
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travs View Post
    I think if somebody makes the decision to "become female", then they should have to accept that one of the drawbacks is that elite-level sport can no longer be available to them.
    Why just elite level sport?

    Why should a female in a local fell race have to compete against someone who has "become female" but still has the attributes of a bloke!
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  8. #8
    Master Hank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    But it doesn't really answer my question.
    It's hard to give a definitive answer to an issue so complex and sensitive. I prefer the RFU's position: "it believes further scientific evidence is required alongside detailed consideration of less restrictive measures in relation to the eligibility of transgender players".

    I think there are two key issues. 1) Is there incontrovertible evidence that a woman whose sex at birth was male has an advantage over a cisgender woman, and 2) if there is, how do we square that against natural characteristics that guarantee competitive advantages regardless of sex at birth?
    Geoff Clarke
    Lancaster Runners

  9. #9
    Moderator noel's Avatar
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    In general I think this comes into the area of what's unfair and not a level playing field. This can take many forms: women who have always been women but have abnormally high levels of male hormones - there are notable examples of this
    And women who's physical attributes in a certain sport benefit from having developed over a period of time as male.
    But it's probably sport-specific and also level-specific.
    Would I exclude a transgender woman from winning a bottle of wine at my local fell race? No - I think at a local, non-elite level this also needs balancing with inclusivity and etiquette.
    No longer "resting"

  10. #10
    Yeah I'm with Hank as that the whole thing is quite complicated. At a fundamental level sport and fitness are fantastic positives for mental health and, without trying to assume things I don't know anything much about, I can at least imagine that transgender persons may have been through a very tough time indeed and may have potential for fragile mental health. So being active in a sport or sports will be a good thing.

    For individual sports like fell running, I can't see the harm at all in them competing in races either with most of the participants in a fell race largely competing with themselves rather than trying to get a top ten finish; that said maybe they would first have a discreet word with the race organiser and state that, were they to gain a top 3 position in a race category, they'd perhaps prefer to be excluded? On the other hand all the people that beat me in my age category are clearly at some sort of completely unfair advantage (DNA? Not heavy boned? Ferret like racing weasel? Using local knowledge?). Sometimes life is unfair, albeit its usually naturally unfair - I mean how many 5ft 7 professional basket ball players are there?

    In team sports though there's another layer to it in that one person's inclusion in the starting line up of say a women's rugby team means that someone else has to sit on the sidelines. At the highest level, taken to its complete extreme, the winning team of the women's rugby world cup could theoretically be made up wholly of transgender players. And would that be in any way fair to non-transgender women. My younger daughter actually played for England at Rugby League and was in trials for England RU too until an ACL tear, following on from a series of shoulder dislocations and resultant operations, knocked things on the head. Women's rugby at its highest level is an extremely tough sport and potentially the inclusion of transgender players could make it even tougher, in an unfair way

    Anyway its a really difficult thing to be wholly right or wrong about I guess
    Last edited by Fellbeast; 16-10-2020 at 10:24 AM.

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