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Thread: building schedules

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travs View Post
    Huge example of this came on the first South Wales Mountain trial... a leg of 2-3 miles across to the other side of Fan Fawr.

    Everyone except for myself contoured round. But i took the steep 500ft climb straight over the summit...

    My thoughts were not so much distance saved (i don't think it saved any distance at all), but then having the vast majority of the leg running downhill, approaching the checkpoint from above, and hopefully avoiding the abundant tussocky and marshy ground.

    Your own relative strengths/weaknesses also play into it.


    Leg 1-2 on the map below...

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L-C...Z8qWyOaY_/view
    I'm surprised you were the only one who went up and over Travs as it looks the obvious choice to me.
    Unless,of course, one would be certain of a decent trod around the hill.

    My knowledge of that area is that it is really tough underfoot when off any paths.

    Did your time for that leg justify your route choice?
    Visibility good except in Hill Fog

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llani Boy View Post
    I'm surprised you were the only one who went up and over Travs as it looks the obvious choice to me.
    Unless,of course, one would be certain of a decent trod around the hill.

    My knowledge of that area is that it is really tough underfoot when off any paths.

    Did your time for that leg justify your route choice?

    I'm not sure on exact leg times, but i managed to keep up (and even gain) on some of the lead guys, who included a couple of the better fellrunners from S.Wales, and a National level orienteer.

    I expect the very steep profile view of Fan Fawr from point 1 would have put a lot of people off... it looks like a tough climb from there...

    Unfortunately on the long leg 5-6 i decided to play "follow the leader" instead of sticking to my guns, and dropped out of contention.

    And yes it is a tough area to run... the Four Fans race being a good race to find out all about it!
    Last edited by Travs; 28-01-2021 at 11:37 AM.

  3. #23
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    Thanks for all the responses. I havent logged in for a few days so hadn't realised there had been so much discussion.

    The main reason I ask is I've put a few routes together that I'd like to have go at later this year and just want to put some rough scheduling together to get an idea of what I might expect to be hitting certain splits in. Then I guess I can do some recces and test if those splits are likely to work or not.

    So on Bill's suggestion, if I was to run 800m flat in say 5 mins, if I went and ran with that same intensity up a hill I should be doing about 100m in 5 mins? And if I was to run 250m flat in 3 minutes I would expect to run 100m down a steep hill in 3 mins?

    Just to check I've understood that right? And then just make a few small adjustments on top of that based on terrain?

    Thanks

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponte_ricky View Post
    if I was to run 800m flat in say 5 mins, if I went and ran with that same intensity up a hill I should be doing about 100m in 5 mins? And if I was to run 250m flat in 3 minutes I would expect to run 100m down a steep hill in 3 mins?
    If you run 800m flat in 5 mins, then you would expect to run 800m with 100m climb in 10 mins (5 mins for the distance and 5 mins for the climb).
    It's generally easier to think of it as converting climb to an equivalent distance:
    So for example you have a run of 10km that has 500m of ascent & descent in it. The 500m ascent is equivalent to 4000m of flat running (500*8), so estimate your time for the run as the time it would take you to run 14km on the flat.

    Obviously, as others said, that's a huge simplification - a hilly run may be more likely to be on uneven, difficult ground so you can't compare it to a flat run on a good surface. But its a good rule of thumb that's served me well.

    The downhill bit...
    What it's saying is that once the downhill slope gets too steep your progress actually slows up. Thinking of an uneven descent here, not on a road.
    So if you descend 500m in 1km, you should consider that equivalent to a distance of 2.25km (1km for the distance and 2.5*500 for the descent).
    But that's even more of a simplification than the uphill bit. And it only applies for really steep descents. So maybe just ignore that!!
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  5. #25
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    The only question is what factor to multiply the ascent by to equate to distance.
    Hank and Naismith use 10
    Mark G and Travs use about 5.3 (1000'->1mile)
    Phil Scarf and I use 8
    Pick your own favourite number!
    Last edited by BillJ; 29-01-2021 at 03:41 PM.
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  6. #26
    Member ponte_ricky's Avatar
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    thanks Bill, yeah i spent some time looking at some previous race efforts (did a TT on the old whicken hill race last week) and worked it around the 8:1 calculation you've kindly explained and it work out pretty close (about a minute quicker than my actual time. but as you say, it doesn't really factor in the fact that theres a short section of heather bashing near the top which probably added that extra minute on. but i can play around and modify and customise the formula slightly to suit my strengths and weaknesses and terrain types i suppose.

    Thanks i really appreciate your help.

  7. #27
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    Travs is there a routegadget for that race?

    I really enjoy checking my routes against others.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew View Post
    Travs is there a routegadget for that race?

    I really enjoy checking my routes against others.

    There is indeed...

    https://www.ngoc.routegadget.co.uk/rg2/#127

    You'll see me on the results (6th) but my route isn't drawn on there.

    On inspection it seems someone else did take a similar route on the leg.

    I totally agree that RouteGadget is absolutely brilliant, and i've spent hours looking up the various LDMT's and picking/comparing routes.
    Last edited by Travs; 29-01-2021 at 05:24 PM.

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