Decline the jab

[Witton Park]

You are a good man, WP, we just disagree strongly on this, thinking the issue is clear cut and that the other person is ignoring the obvious.

I've ever thought the issue was clear cut. If you look back 3 years ago I was pro the covid vax, glad it had been developed and looking forward to the peace of mind for the older and vulnerable that it would bring and allow us to crack on.
When that didn't happen and the roll-out was extended that is when I started to ask questions with regards to the vaccine.

[Mike T]

I've ever thought the issue was clear cut. If you look back 3 years ago I was pro the covid vax, glad it had been developed and looking forward to the peace of mind for the older and vulnerable that it would bring and allow us to crack on.
When that didn't happen and the roll-out was extended that is when I started to ask questions with regards to the vaccine.

I am talking about your position on the Covid vaccine now. Do correct me if I am wrong.

[MattPo]

You are banging your head against a very resistant wall Mike!

I rest my case!

[Witton Park]

I am talking about your position on the Covid vaccine now. Do correct me if I am wrong.

I don't believe the vaccine has been effective.

I have doubts about it's safety.

I don't believe it should have been rolled out down the age groups.

I have lots of concerns about the way the pandemic was managed.

The Covid enquiry seems like a whitewash.

[Mike T]

I don't believe the vaccine has been effective.

I have doubts about it's safety.

I don't believe it should have been rolled out down the age groups.

I have lots of concerns about the way the pandemic was managed.

The Covid enquiry seems like a whitewash.

Thanks for the clarification.

[anthonykay]

It's just the last decade that I've started to get a little agitated - maybe the Forum has played a part
I look at politics and coverage of certain issues and it just makes me wince.

Yes, politics has definitely taken a turn for the worse in the last decade. And it was a decade ago that the Brexit debate was hotting up. The problem is not due to the issues of EU membership; it's how the Brexit campaign was fought.

An example: there was an interview on the radio with two female MP's, one Leave and one Remain supporter, at a time when there was a lot of concern about the abuse that women in politics were getting. The Remain supporter gave a catalogue of the abuse that she had been getting, and then the interviewer turned to the Leave supporter, who said that actually she had got hardly any abuse.

Another example: here in Loughborough we had an excellent Tory MP, Nicky Morgan, who worked really hard for the constituency. But eventually the abuse she was getting from Brexiteers got too much for her, and she resigned at the 2019 General Election (and was quickly sent to the Lords, in recognition of her abilities). She has been replaced by someone who is pretty useless (she had been a Borough Councillor, and that is about the limit of her competence).

So I place the decline in the standard of our politics firmly at the door of Nigel Farage and his cronies in Reform UK, and I am getting quite distressed at the apparent increase in their popularity. It is they who have created the present polarised and abusive conditions, where common sense, decency and competence seem to count for nothing.

[Witton Park]

Yes, politics has definitely taken a turn for the worse in the last decade. And it was a decade ago that the Brexit debate was hotting up. The problem is not due to the issues of EU membership; it's how the Brexit campaign was fought.

An example: there was an interview on the radio with two female MP's, one Leave and one Remain supporter, at a time when there was a lot of concern about the abuse that women in politics were getting. The Remain supporter gave a catalogue of the abuse that she had been getting, and then the interviewer turned to the Leave supporter, who said that actually she had got hardly any abuse.

Another example: here in Loughborough we had an excellent Tory MP, Nicky Morgan, who worked really hard for the constituency. But eventually the abuse she was getting from Brexiteers got too much for her, and she resigned at the 2019 General Election (and was quickly sent to the Lords, in recognition of her abilities). She has been replaced by someone who is pretty useless (she had been a Borough Councillor, and that is about the limit of her competence).

So I place the decline in the standard of our politics firmly at the door of Nigel Farage and his cronies in Reform UK, and I am getting quite distressed at the apparent increase in their popularity. It is they who have created the present polarised and abusive conditions, where common sense, decency and competence seem to count for nothing.

Abuse isn't appropriate.

I was an advocate for Brexit Anthony. Since mid-late 90s.

I think you have to go back further personally. One can see from the attitudes expressed by some even on here, that anyone raising the issue of immigration is put in the same camp as the BNP and that was happening during the Blair years.

So to lay the blame at Farage, often subject to abuse and smears himself, overlooks the long period of abuse hurled at anyone who expressed a contrary view to the "progressives" on both left and right, and unfortunately your much loved MP Nicky Morgan was party to that by declaring anyone aligned with Farage on Brexit as racists and bigots.

I'd happily debate Morgan on any topic, because I don't think she had a political philosophy, in line with most of today's politicians.

[noel]

I don't believe the vaccine has been effective.

That surprises me. Here's a meta-analysis
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...01971221008572
showing effectiveness using the endpoints: infection, hospitalisation, ICU admission, and death. All show high levels of effectiveness.

What criteria are you using?

[MattPo]

That surprises me. Here's a meta-analysis
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...01971221008572
showing effectiveness using the endpoints: infection, hospitalisation, ICU admission, and death. All show high levels of effectiveness.

What criteria are you using?

It’s the deepstate, illuminate criteria.
Hilary Clinton abusing kids in the pizza shop basement.
Birds aren’t real, they are spy drones- that’s why they land on wires - to recharge and download data.
Generally meta analysis is bomb proof.

[Witton Park]

Generally meta analysis is bomb proof.

Except when it's Invermectin.

That aside, your "contribution" is not really worthy of that name. Pretty appalling really to link genuine concerns, held by well regarded experts (until they broke ranks) and that is what you come up with.

Piss-poor.