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Thread: Was I an evil landlord?

  1. #1

    Was I an evil landlord?

    "Accidental" landlord here. Bought a house intending to live there forever with family until life came in the way and we moved (abroad). We thought it was better to let it rather than selling it. So I've been a landlord for few years now.

    Last tenants moved out. All good.

    New applicants turned up, a couple and her sister. I got a report from the agent: two red flags: 1) their previous landlord would NOT relet to them, and 2) their previous agent says they left the place messy.
    So I had to decide whether to let our property to them or not. Two ways of looking at it.

    A)It could well be that the previous landlord was unreasonable. I know this sometimes happens, I went through an unreasonable landlord myself. Decent people should not be penalized because someone else is evil.

    B)I must decide based on the information I have. Although this information is incomplete, and possibly not fully correct, this is ALL I have. If I ignore it, I should not have looked at it.

    Ultimately point B carried more weight for me, so I answered "sorry, no". But I feel a little bad about it.

    Maybe they are great folks and I put them in difficulty?
    Was I naughty?
    Last edited by Gambatte; 02-12-2022 at 02:56 PM.

  2. #2
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  3. #3
    Moderator Mossdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    "Accidental" landlord here. Bought a house intending to live there forever with family until life came in the way and we moved (abroad). We thought it was better to let it rather than selling it. So I've been a landlord for few years now.

    Last tenants moved out. All good.

    New applicants turned up, a couple and her sister. I got a report from the agent: two red flags: 1) their previous landlord would NOT relet to them, and 2) their previous agent says they left the place messy.
    So I had to decide whether to let our property to them or not. Two ways of looking at it.

    A)It could well be that the previous landlord was unreasonable. I know this sometimes happens, I went through an unreasonable landlord myself. Decent people should not be penalized because someone else is evil.

    B)I must decide based on the information I have. Although this information is incomplete, and possibly not fully correct, this is ALL I have. If I ignore it, I should not have looked at it.

    Ultimately point B carried more weight for me, so I answered "sorry, no". But I feel a little bad about it.

    Maybe they are great folks and I put them in difficulty?
    Was I naughty?
    I think that the issue here (or the one I'm conveniently choosing to follow) is the choice dilemma. Should I choose A or B (or C, D...etc.). There's a whole discipline related to Choice Psychology. Fretting about the 'right' choice is what we all have to face multiple times throughout the day. Muesli or bacon and eggs; press-ups or chin-ups ; etc.

    All I can advise from my own experience of working in the field of therapeutic psychology, is that generally, even if we had a look-ahead ability to see into the future what the outcomes might be , we'd still be no better off as those outcomes would inevitably have later consequences and so on, in an eternal chain of possibilities, and possible outcome trees with more and more choices having to be made at each branch.

    The best advice I've found is just to 'go for it'. Choose one option and rigidly stick to it. Tell yourself that you've pondered the issue enough so that is the right decision because it was the one you made, and you are honouring your commitment to it, so it really is the right one for you. No-one can honestly say if the other would have been better, because consequences unfold over a lifetime, one way or another. You've made your choice - stick to it!

    Now, if you're talking about moral choice, well....
    Am Yisrael Chai

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mossdog View Post
    The best advice I've found is just to 'go for it'. Choose one option and rigidly stick to it. Tell yourself that you've pondered the issue enough so that is the right decision because it was the one you made, and you are honouring your commitment to it, so it really is the right one for you. No-one can honestly say if the other would have been better, because consequences unfold over a lifetime, one way or another. You've made your choice - stick to it!
    Great answer thanks a lot.
    Oh, are you a psychologist???? I'm going though psychiatrists right now with my teenage daugther. I do it for the love I have for her. Not easy stuff...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mossdog View Post
    I think that the issue here (or the one I'm conveniently choosing to follow) is the choice dilemma. Should I choose A or B (or C, D...etc.). There's a whole discipline related to Choice Psychology. Fretting about the 'right' choice is what we all have to face multiple times throughout the day. Muesli or bacon and eggs; press-ups or chin-ups ; etc.

    All I can advise from my own experience of working in the field of therapeutic psychology, is that generally, even if we had a look-ahead ability to see into the future what the outcomes might be , we'd still be no better off as those outcomes would inevitably have later consequences and so on, in an eternal chain of possibilities, and possible outcome trees with more and more choices having to be made at each branch.

    The best advice I've found is just to 'go for it'. Choose one option and rigidly stick to it. Tell yourself that you've pondered the issue enough so that is the right decision because it was the one you made, and you are honouring your commitment to it, so it really is the right one for you. No-one can honestly say if the other would have been better, because consequences unfold over a lifetime, one way or another. You've made your choice - stick to it!

    Now, if you're talking about moral choice, well....
    Very well set out.

    In my Human Resources days I was heavily involved in career guidance/ development/ selection, etc but I know life doesn't really work out like that.

    Towards the end of my career I had concluded that any success I had achieved was through failing to be appointed to jobs I applied for at my initiative and totally through accepting posts that my olders and betters offered to me believing I could actually do (hopefully well).
    Last edited by Graham Breeze; 02-12-2022 at 06:06 PM.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  6. #6
    Senior Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    Towards the end of my career I had concluded that any success I had achieved was through failing to be appointed to jobs I applied for at my initiative and totally through accepting posts that my olders and betters offered to me believing I could actually do (hopefully well).
    I never succeeded in any of the applications I made for jobs. Not one. Of the four companies I did work for, none of the jobs were advertised nor were there any other candidates. I didn't understand it then, and I'm still no wiser. I just put it down to the mystery of life; well mine anyway

    And back to the question ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    Maybe they are great folks and I put them in difficulty?
    Was I naughty?
    No. It's taken me a few decades, but I've discovered that my gut interest is better than my reasoned consideration. If something doesn't feel right then I won't do it.

  7. #7
    Master Wheeze's Avatar
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    Depends on your political leaning.
    If you are aspirational capitalist then you did the right thing.
    If you are a red flag waving socialist then you are guilty of down treading your fellow man.

    We all have these internal arguments. Those of us lucky enough to be raised in a 'free' democracy can exercise choice. That ability is precious. As Moss Dog says, choose your path and live with the consequences.
    Simon Blease
    Monmouth

  8. #8
    Master molehill's Avatar
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    There is also the risk factor and how that may influence your decisions. Can you afford to take a risk of it all going wrong, how much does that matter to you financially and otherwise?

    If you say "Yes" to them you know from the start that there is a ??? over their suitability and if the let goes wrong you probably won't get much sympathy from others (you were warned from their references etc.) and you may be out of pocket and involved in expensive legal costs?

    If you say "No" you are playing safe but will never know if your decision was the right one or you have caused the family more uneccesary hardship.

    Decisions, decisions!
    Don't roll with a pig in poo. You get covered in poo and the pig likes it.

  9. #9
    But then there is the cognitive dissonance factor.

    As one translation of what Nietzsche wrote in Beyond Good and Evil has it:

    'I have done that' says memory. 'I cannot have done that', says conscience.

    But eventually - memory yields to conscience.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  10. #10
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    I've had two times as an accidental landlord.

    First time we had a tenant who was recommended by a family friend, but after around 15 months of paying the rent suddenly stooped and after about 10 weeks we started action at which point they left.

    So nearly a £1000 down, but also £2000 of damage to the property that had been decorated and renewed to sell (we let it because we couldn't sell)
    So we sold. We were lucky that house prices had risen over the two years so we more than recouped our shortfall.

    Second time was Mrs WP. She became part responsible for a property with a tenant from her mother. After a few years of £400/month rent(the tenant had been in around 10 years total) the tenant had to move out for a couple of weeks to deal with some maintenance.
    It ended up being far worse.
    The £2k job ended up being around £10k because of extensive damp caused by the tenant.
    We sold, and got out of it more or less break even.

    I would not let again, especially with the way the laws are heading, which is increasingly stacked against small landlords.

    My advise is sell, although you might be a few months late to catch the market at it's best.

    If you work out the rent will only get you around 5% of the property value gross assuming around £1250/month for a £300k property.
    Strip out your costs, and you may as well have the money, especially as I can see a flat property market now for the rest of this decade, so you can't expect any capital gain.
    After the 2008 crash, our house took around 10 years to recover to the value it was in 2007. I can see that happening again.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
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