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Thread: Causey Pike

  1. #1
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    Causey Pike

    There was an incident involving a walker following a non-existant path north of Causey Pike recently - https://outdoorsmagic.com/article/ne...avigation-app/

    Having done a bit of a search the claim that OSM data is incorrect is in fact incorrect, the underlying data does not have a path in that area, here's what it looks like: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/54.57688/-3.21227 so it's more likely that the app in question has added it in some manner.

    I checked the Strava heat map and there's no MTB activity there but quite a lot of running lines - https://www.strava.com/heatmap#16.00....58215/hot/run (Causey Pike is the hot bend left of centre at the bottom of the screen).

    There's a lot of running lines heading down and across that fellside which got me wondering if there's a race that goes that route. Is that the case or are these just lines from training runs? There are no Strava segments in that area to indicate anything either way.
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    There was an incident involving a walker following a non-existant path north of Causey Pike recently - https://outdoorsmagic.com/article/ne...avigation-app/
    The non-existent path?

    Runners who have died in fell races from hypothermia generally did so after leaving the race route - one aspect being that potential rescuers didn't know where to look. It is also a truism that paths exist where they do for a good reason and may not exist elswhere for equally good, but opposite, reasons.

    In the case of the death of Brian Belfield at Buttermere Sailbeck the detailed CP data, comments later made by runners etc suggested that Brian was in progressive distress during the race, although he did not reveal this to the three manned checkpoints he passed (the 3rd being Causey Pike). On his way to Eel Crag (CP4) he ran past the wide and obvious "escape" footpath at Sail Pass back to Buttermere but as he climbed towards CP4 he decided to turn round, drop out of the race and return to the start, missing out CP4 and CP5 (Whiteless Pike). But instead of returning to the clear "escape" path at Sail Pass, which he had passed shortly before, he unfortunately decided to go down a very steep descent without any path at all. Sliding on moss without any shoe grip led to his death.

    Of course hindsight is always clear-eyed.

    I've never considered myself to be navigationally courageous so on the occasions when I have lost my bearings I have generally taken heart that finding a path is a welcome sign that at least I am not treading where no one has trod before.

    And then, having found a path, I ponder how useful the path might actually be to me.
    Last edited by Graham Breeze; 06-01-2023 at 09:53 AM.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  3. #3
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    Hyperthermia = too hot, hypothermia = too cold.

    Similarly, there is often confusion, particularly when spoken, between hypo and hyperglycemia: too low and too high blood sugar levels.

    Follow a path - I could not agree more.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T View Post
    Hyperthermia = too hot, hypothermia = too cold.

    Similarly, there is often confusion, particularly when spoken, between hypo and hyperglycemia: too low and too high blood sugar levels.

    Follow a path - I could not agree more.
    Thanks Mike.

    It's my age.

    Actually I'm in good company. The Coroner at Brian's inquest made the same mistake in his initial written report!
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  5. #5
    Paths marked on maps (or apps or sportswatches or handheld GPS) may not exist on the ground. Paths visible on the ground may not exist on the map. Even public footpaths shown on a map follow the official line of the designated path rather than what might actually exist. Nothing beats judgement and experience.
    And of course as fellrunners the actual existence of a path or not is often irrelevant.

  6. #6
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    What's curious is that the "path" isn't marked on any other OSM derived maps that I've looked at. It also doesn't follow the most popular lines across that fellside that show up on the heat map.

    The lines on the heat map look more like orienteering style bearing in on a checkpoint.

    I've tried to add a comment to the article but for whatever reason my browser won't follow that link. (turns out it's Facebook comments)
    Last edited by Bob; 06-01-2023 at 11:24 AM.
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark G View Post
    Even public footpaths shown on a map follow the official line of the designated path rather than what might actually exist.
    Yes the game often ends: OS Map 0 Farmer With Plough 6.
    Last edited by Graham Breeze; 06-01-2023 at 11:24 AM.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  8. #8
    I'm struggling to make sense of the Strava heatmap but there's a path shown on Suunto mapping a little east of Causey summit dropping down in an almost straight line towards Stile End. It's a bit strange because it disappears if you zoom in. I don't recall noticing a path there.
    There was a control towards the end of the LDMT in about 2012, a ruined sheepfold well hidden in the heather in around that area - maybe some of the traces are people finding that for practice? Or has it been used for a clubs winter fun choc/beer O?

  9. #9
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    You can change the underlying map/image to satellite if that helps, actually "winter" is the clearest to understand. As I noted in my first post, Causey Pike is the bright "hump" left of centre at the bottom of the area linked, Sleet Hause is the bright junction to the right of that.

    That particular fellside does seem to be well used by "runners" for whatever reason.
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  10. #10
    Master PeteS's Avatar
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    I've gone direct down that way and it's doable
    though there's not much of a path I can recall aside from the odd sheep trod. I don't know to any races that would generate such a heat map though. Must surely be training runs or perhaps a lone masochistic Stair based fell runner who's fond of a long hill rep or 2?
    Pete Shakespeare - U/A

    Going downhill fast

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