How much can I improve?

[SouthLondonWelshman]

I did the Snowdon Race for the 4th time this year and completed it in 1hr 55. I thought my training had gone pretty well and was disappointed with my time - I seriously thought I could get in under 1'50. I'm sure the heat accounted for some time but probably only 2-3 minutes. My question is this - how much better can I hope to get - I was training about 30 miles/week with a quality speedwork session and a decent tempo run and also adding in a couple of cross training sessions on bike/stepper. If I doubled this mileage - and kept the quality sessions up, what could I hope for - a couple of minutes, or a more substantial reduction? Any thoughts are appreciated.

[noel]

I think we need more info to go on.

How old are you? How tall are you? How much do you weigh? How long have you been runnning? Are you still improving?

Are you including any longer runs in that 30 miles a week? I would have thought you'd need some endurance type training for a run the length of Snowdon.

I think I do a similar amount of training and would also be interested to know what the likely effect of more training would be. I'd be surprised if doubling the mileage to 60 miles/week didn't have a large effect (as long as you keep the quality similar).

We clearly need Christopher Leigh to shed some light on this issue. Or failing that, perhaps someone like Saz

[CL]

I think we need more info to go on.

How old are you? How tall are you? How much do you weigh? How long have you been runnning? Are you still improving?

Are you including any longer runs in that 30 miles a week? I would have thought you'd need some endurance type training for a run the length of Snowdon.

I think I do a similar amount of training and would also be interested to know what the likely effect of more training would be. I'd be surprised if doubling the mileage to 60 miles/week didn't have a large effect (as long as you keep the quality similar).

We clearly need Christopher Leigh to shed some light on this issue. Or failing that, perhaps someone like Saz

Noel you've asked all the questions I was going to ask.

[SouthLondonWelshman]

I turned 40 this year and weigh around 11.5 stone and am about 5'10. I've been running on and off for about 13 years and certainly seemed to be improving in my training runs - though was struggling with my interval sessions in the last couple of weeks before the race. I was including a long run of up to 13 miles around Boxhill (it's the nearest I have to a mountain ). I would then do a mixed interval session one day (typically 1 x 2k @ 7:50pm; 1 x 1mile @ 7:30pm; 1 x 1k @ 7:15pm and then 800m @ 7:00pm with 2 mins recovery) and a tempo run (up to 8 miles with 6 at around the 7:50 mark). Also 45 minutes on an exercise bike (on a 'hills' setting) and 40-45 minutes on a stepper.

Hope this helps. I'd be happy to increase mileage/number of sessions but don't want running to take over (busy job, kids etc)

[IainR]

I'd say Snowdon was more like 5-6 minutes for guys taking about 2 hrs, maybe more. Lots of people had bad runs on Snowdon, very very few ran times they were happy with, so don't take too much from one race. Most around me (1:20) reckoned they were 3-4 minutes down, so I think that slow down would be more severe for those taking longer (more time in the heat).

I know guys who were 5-10 minutes off last years pace, while being fitter this year.

[dominion]

You only seem to be doing 3 runs a week? I'd dump either the exercise bike or the stepper and do a steady run instead - maybe upto about 10 and then push your 13 mile up to 15ish.

[Roadrunner]

Lots of people had bad runs on Snowdon, very very few ran times they were happy with, so don't take too much from one race. Most around me (1:20) reckoned they were 3-4 minutes down,

Excellent, I would have ran a course record then going off this!!!!

[CL]

I turned 40 this year and weigh around 11.5 stone and am about 5'10. I've been running on and off for about 13 years and certainly seemed to be improving in my training runs - though was struggling with my interval sessions in the last couple of weeks before the race. I was including a long run of up to 13 miles around Boxhill (it's the nearest I have to a mountain ). I would then do a mixed interval session one day (typically 1 x 2k @ 7:50pm; 1 x 1mile @ 7:30pm; 1 x 1k @ 7:15pm and then 800m @ 7:00pm with 2 mins recovery) and a tempo run (up to 8 miles with 6 at around the 7:50 mark). Also 45 minutes on an exercise bike (on a 'hills' setting) and 40-45 minutes on a stepper.

Hope this helps. I'd be happy to increase mileage/number of sessions but don't want running to take over (busy job, kids etc)

SLW you should be able to achieve good results off 5hours training a week.Can you lose some weight? If you can that will be a start in increasing your power/weight ratio with no change in absolute power.

1) In terms of time one longish run of 1h30m-2hours just within your maximum steady state.This will train the body to provide fuel and oxygen continuously for longish periods(muscular endurance).

2) Another run like the above for 45-60minutes.

3) 15minutes w.up,20minutes hard(approx 5km),15minutes w.down. These time trials are essential to increasing your average speed in races.Try to run evenly in effort.

4)Some form of interval training. If you're doing the time trial you don't need long intervals. It's better to run shorter efforts. These will stretch you out more, overcoming resistance in the muscles,connective tissue and joints.

These along with the time trials will develop your oxygen uptake and energy delivery to the muscles. Best types of sessions(as a guide) are 12x400m with 40-60 secs rest and 20x200m with 30secs rest.

Only do the tt or the intervals if you're fresh. If you do them when you're tired you'll just become jaded and slower. When racing avoid the hard sessions for as many days as required for a good performance.

Hope this helps

[SouthLondonWelshman]

Thanks CL - I appreciate the advice. I was thinking of adding some slower recovery runs/cross training - as much as anything to help with your first point about getting my weight down. Will give your schedule a go and try to enter a few more races to keep the motivation going/sharpen the pace a bit. Roll on Snowdon 2009!!

[Stagger]

Some great advice by CL that almost fits me too a tee and I have taken it all onboard.

Just one question to ask, I tend to do hill sessions instead of the speed work, which would be the most productive for fell running?