Rules rant

[FellMonster]

How come you don't have to be a member of the FRA to run British / English champs, yet if your club isnt affiliated to regional UKA then you cannot compete, even as an individual, in for example the Northern XC xhamps??? Doesn't quite seem right.

Even stranger, how come any Tom, Dick or Harry can earn team points in the Fell Championships (so long as their club has ticked a little box with their regional UKA office, or maybe the box doesn't even need to be ticked?????) yet a bunch of fully paid up FRA MEMBERS running under an auspice (unaffiliated club) cannot earn team points in Fell Championship races, because they have not affiliated to UKA. That surely seems harsh to say the least. Its been bugging me over the weekend.

Whatever happened to the principle of OPEN CHAMPIONSHIPS? Im glad the FRA don't pursue the same line as NIMRA (N.I mountain runners) ie- that you cannot earn championship points or run for N.I (can they afford to be choosy) unless you are a fully paid up NIMRA member. I just think that its awfully unfair, but no doubt someone will put me right that its because UKA are in some way behind FRA, offer them financial support, provide medals or whatever.

Does this seem unkind or unfair to anyone else?

I would like to add my personal thanks to the FRA statisticians who have helped me to make some sort of sense of the rules and have given of their own time to answer my enquiries

[Dew Claw Lassalle]

You need to get off your high pony Ricky and renew that Horwich membership then I can get my own back at the next FRA relay!
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and no I have no sensible answer

[DazTheSlug]

Fellmonster - why not just enter as separate unaffiliated runners, then work out how many points the "team" would've scored, then put alternative standings up on a separate website for anybody who's interested?

[marrow]

Forgive my ignorance, as an occassional visitor to the Forum these days, but why does anyone want to make the "statement" of independance of NOT being in a club, but then go on to form a loose association, with no structure, committee, members fees, but with a "club" vest, and an expectation that for the purposes of Team prizes it should be recognised as a club! Eat, cake, and, have, your, it. Re-arrange for a prize!

[FellMonster]

I was waiting for an anonymous smart alec to come along with that sort of comment. So thanks, Marrow.

You'll note that i was referring to the Team championship, and team prizes....rather than club. While you may argue its just a question of semantics, I think its highly relevant here.....if we're paid up members of the FRA and regularly run for our 'TEAM', why shouldn't we be able to score TEAM points in the Fell Championships? At the same time, any runner who runs for ..........(insert any club name here) and ISN'T a paid up member of the FRA, CAN score team points in the championships. That seems a little backward to me.

[marrow]

We all hide behind silly names on here - guessing whose gob is anonymized is just part of the fun, and I am a smart alec, so thanks for recognizing that!!

I don't see your point at all. You're right, it is just semantics. Team/Club?? Wot da fuk da difference? The point is, you cannot count as a Team in a championship unless you are affiliated as such - and that would make you a club. Meanwhile, you seem to like the collective individualism of being a non-club. I'm happy with that, good on you. I like your vest. But I don't think you can really complain that you can't count as a Team for championship purposes.

By the way, what is the origin of the phrase "you can't have your cake and eat it"? I've just been to the bakers, bought a cake, which in law made it mine, and ate it. There you go, a decades old saying destroyed in a matter of seconds.

[FellMonster]

Marrow,

Do you not see the ironicism at play when non FRA members can collect team championship points, and FRA members cannot collect team points? It'd be fair enough if I ran for someone else all year round and then just entered FRA champ races for some top club. But thats not the case here......I just don't get it.

And of course we are a team. We even have a vest (tho creative people are encouraged to design their own if they wish) but we just don't have officials, and silly rules and charge fees for the pleasure. Thats the difference, full stop. You clearly don't get it but thats fair enough. IF YOU DO AFFILIATE to your regional UKA office (I like that), you are duty bound to have elected posts, an AGM, and a constitution. Why, because we don't want that, and because we save a few quid into the bargain should we NOT be entitled to earn team points in the fell team championships if we are paid up members of the FRA? Can you understand it now?

[end]

We all hide behind silly names on here - guessing whose gob is anonymized is just part of the fun, and I am a smart alec, so thanks for recognizing that!!

I don't see your point at all. You're right, it is just semantics. Team/Club?? Wot da fuk da difference? The point is, you cannot count as a Team in a championship unless you are affiliated as such - and that would make you a club. Meanwhile, you seem to like the collective individualism of being a non-club. I'm happy with that, good on you. I like your vest. But I don't think you can really complain that you can't count as a Team for championship purposes.

By the way, what is the origin of the phrase "you can't have your cake and eat it"? I've just been to the bakers, bought a cake, which in law made it mine, and ate it. There you go, a decades old saying destroyed in a matter of seconds.

But you don't "have" it do you? And if you do have, show me!

[marrow]

I do see where you are coming from - but those are the rules. Nothing ironic in them. My club is very low key, charges a fiver for membership, has the quickest AGM on record, has officials who meet once a year to decide on club championship races, and everyone just gets on with the running. Thats the pragmatic answer to the situation you are in. If you want to count as a Team in a UKA affiliated Team competition you have to register as a Team - and comply with the rules. Frustrating maybe, but not unfair.

Interesting 2 person debate - which I must leave now as I really had better do some work!!

Cheers FellMonster

[XRunner]

Does this seem unkind or unfair to anyone else?

What is very unkind and unfair is a team of top class runners who form their own "Club" and then specifically enter races in order to win the team honours or prizes.

In many championships (including fell races) some individuals and other Club officials believe that their own aspirations are more important than any Rules or Regulations.