Hill Reps - Good for you?!

[TimW]

My general training for the fells has revolved around long hilly Sunday runs and good quality running on relatively flat terrain. Then every now and then I get motivated to do really tough hill sessions, figuring they're bound to improve my climbing, which has always been my weakness - I'm much better at descending and can run much faster on the flat than most of my peers. But the opposite always seems to happen, they leave my quads so bloody shot I can barely walk up a steep hill the next time I do a long run!

Is this normal? Or do I just push the reps too hard and not allow recovery? Or is it a case of what works for one won't necessarily work for another? Interested in people's views as I'm a very thoughtful trainer and just can't quite get my head round why it shouldn't work. Or maybe I'm just meant to be a crap climber, we can't all be good at everything!

[AJF]

Hill reps is now an essential part of my training. I am always looking for big hills to run up to make me better on the ascent as last year that was one (of many) weak areas.

Think the problem may lie with the "every now and then" bit of your hill training. You need to do more not less.

The more you do the better you will be but that means at least once a week you need to massacre your thighs all for the cause. You will soon find that the recovery is faster.

[Stolly]

My strong suit (well my least weak ) is climbing and almost every run I do includes a hill or two. I think you just don't do enough hill climbs so your legs aren't so good at hacking it.

By the way I now have hugely disproportionate sized quads

[TimW]

I appreciate your thoughts guys, yeah you could be right... Worth bearing in mind though that I do plenty of 'climbs' in long runs (typically the Long Mynd Valleys race route - don't know anyone who thinks thats an easy one ) I bike to work and back, and as I say seem to have the 'quads' for descending, even really steep ones. I wonder if it's just the intensity that I sometimes overdo.

For example I did 4x5min steep on the wrekin on Saturday then most of the Borrowdale route on Sunday, feeling fine until the climb up Gable (which on a good day I can run all the way!) but just didn't have the legs for it at all, not feeling at all like the runner who has won his last 2 races and is meant to be fitter than ever. Maybe there's a fine line between fitness and overtraining and it's common sense that a tough session like I did Sat needs more recovery, I don't know. Maybe I worry too much

[AJF]

Ah now with the added information of you winning your last two races it has all become clear.

You are not eating enough pies! I personally recommend a steady diet of steak bakes.

[CL]

My general training for the fells has revolved around long hilly Sunday runs and good quality running on relatively flat terrain. Then every now and then I get motivated to do really tough hill sessions, figuring they're bound to improve my climbing, which has always been my weakness - I'm much better at descending and can run much faster on the flat than most of my peers. But the opposite always seems to happen, they leave my quads so bloody shot I can barely walk up a steep hill the next time I do a long run!

Is this normal? Or do I just push the reps too hard and not allow recovery? Or is it a case of what works for one won't necessarily work for another? Interested in people's views as I'm a very thoughtful trainer and just can't quite get my head round why it shouldn't work. Or maybe I'm just meant to be a crap climber, we can't all be good at everything!

Tim W keep the intensity of your hill reps the same, but reduce the volume by half.That should enable you to do your long run the day after.

By the way the quadriceps have to produce a lot more force, in uphill running.Particulary on steep hills.In downhill running they just take the weight of the body as you land.The range of movement is much less.

Regards

[alf.t]

TimW,
I have noticed your weakness up those long steep hills, and your strength elsewhere.
Hill reps and some leg strengthening execises/gym will do you some good. Its effective for Paula Radcliffe. Be careful not to take the edge off your natural speed. Ensure you keep tabs of reps/exercises and stick to a plan. Also seek some advice on stretching the hamstrings/buttocks/lower back to maximise your effort. Post injury stretching increased my hill rep performance and impacted favourably on hill climbing ability.

[TimW]

I find this sort of stuff (discussing training) very useful and beneficial, and is something I think is lacking in our sport. Whenever you watch Alpine Sports on TV the commentators seem to know all about the training the athletes are doing, what phase of the season they're in and all that. We, on the other hand (or maybe it's British sportsmen in general) seem to think that by telling someone else what training we do we'll be giving away our secrets and helping them beat us! Its like, the training we do is private, almost like telling someone what we earn! I personally find this quite sad although maybe I'm in the minority.

One leading runner once said to me he didn't mind who knew what he did, they still had to go and bloody do it! (which is the hard part!) Either that or some people just haven't a clue (and to be honest, I don't think a lot of coaches have!) they just bumble through training and racing and hope for the best (or come out with advice like eat more pies )

[dominion]

Tim,
That's exactly why I started the 'Todays Training' thread. I've always tried to pick up on what other people do, then copy some bits, change other bits and ignore a few more bits as and where I feel they work for me, and much of that is by trial and error.
Like you say, the hard bit is actually going out and doing it. If someone can tell me that bit on 'Todays Training' it would very very handy....

[marty mcfly]

Good discussion fellas.

So what counts as a 'rep'?

Is it a 2-minute blast or is it something bigger?

I've got a reservoir embankment near me and sometimes do 20 reps on that - it's only 20m high but it's steep! Alternatively I have an 800-foot killer climb and occasionally do 3 reps of that, with a couple of miles recovery run in between (I'm aiming for 3 hills in a run with the three peaks looming!)

Is there a 'best' or is it a case of pushing yourself on whatever is in front of you?