NicklasOriginally Posted by nikalas
Why don't you tell us why 20 minutes flat out without a warmup is 'suspect.' What sessions do you advocate, that are better than My suggestion.Tell us and then we can debate it properly.Just dismissing an idea without reasons is foolish, and from what I know about you, I don't think you're that.
Anybody have a turbo trainer sitting in the garage they are not using? I have been looking for a second hand one for a while now, but the ones on e-bay are still going for £40-£50. Cheers.
Good evening Drunken duck, just done turbo session tonight. 15 mins fast spinning 90rpm gradually increasing resistance then 20 min on pushing big gears then 15 min spinning. Think the bigger gears lower cadence is helping with the steep climbs while running, hope that helps.
OK.... first of all no warm-up. Going straight into a hard near maximal effort will increase the risk of muscle and joint injuries. Also, because the enzymes involved in energy production will not be at their optimal working temperature you'll struggle to get up to and maintain effort. For the sake of a progressive 5-10 minutes warm-up you'll get much more out of your 20 minutes blast. Second, there are much more interesting, structured and beneficial (which is key to keep up motivation on a turbo) things to do then just spinning away like mad for 20 minutes. Using a heart-rate monitor/wattage to monitor effort and working intervals etc....
I ride with a lot of good riders (sub 55 25's,etc) who use the turbo on a regular basis and none of them have heard of the '20mins go like hell routine'. Most follow a structured routine using heart rate & wattage as a measuring tool and ALWAYS starts/ends with a warm up/down.
Graeme Obree did.Have you heard of him?
Nicklas I'll deal with your points.
Firstly injuries are caused when muscles produce more force than the tendons etc can take.Since the forces involved in a 20minute TT are quite low, there is no risk of injury, provided the athlete doesn't start suddenly.
Surely the optimum working temperature for enzymes in the body is 37degrees?If they were meant to work best at 40degrees, surely the body would be 40 degrees?
Interesting!Since when has getting superfit been interesting.Painful more like.
Did you find your 2 1/2 hours pounding away on a turbo interesting?That would numb My mind.
One last question. which session requires more power and why.20 minutes flat out or 20 minutes of intervals?
- But you are saying to start suddenly and not warm-up
- 'fraid not about the enzymes, hence why a warm-up is so essential
- training should be as interesting as possible, one of the key things for maintaining motivation.
- no I didn't, but I found a happy place, some good stuff on BBC I-player and just did it.
-Depends on the intensity of the intervals...
-Have heard of Graham Obree.. and he did/does warm-up before a TT
anyway some sessions for those who are interested.
Session One: Thirty Minute Time-Trial (50 minutes total)
Not so much a training session as more of a test. Perform it every month or so to see how your training is progressing. Warm-up for ten minutes starting on the small chain-ring, largest rear sprocket (lowest gear) and medium resistance. After every two minutes knock your gear up one sprocket aiming to maintain a cadence of 80-100 rpm. After ten minutes shift to the big ring (keep a medium resistance and you should be in the middle of the rear block) and ride as hard as you can for thirty minutes. Cool down for 10 minutes reversing the warm-up routine. Record the distance you achieved in the 30 minutes and try to beat it next time.
Session Two: Threshold Booster (41-65 minutes total)
3-5 X 5 minutes with 3 minutes recovery
This session is designed to raise your Lactate Threshold and your ability to perform at or near it. Warm-up for ten minutes in the same way as for Session One. Shift to the big chain-ring and work hard for five minutes (aiming for a heart rate 15-25 beats below your maximum). At the end of the five minutes drop to the small chain-ring, drop the resistance and spin easily for three minutes. Repeat this work/recovery cycle for three to six reps depending on ability. Cool down as in session one.
Session Three: Power Blast (37-57 minutes total)
5-10 X 1 minute with 3 minutes recovery
This session will boost your explosive strength and power allowing you to blast up short climbs or win the sprints to town signs. Warm-up for ten minutes in the same way as for Session One. Shift to the big ring and your smallest sprocket. Sprint flat out for one-minute initially building momentum out of the saddle before sitting down and carrying the speed through. At the end of the minute spin really easily in a low gear against low resistance for three minutes. Repeat this work/recovery cycle for five to ten reps depending on ability. Cool down as in session one.
Session Four: One Legged Wonder (40 minutes)
5 X 1 minute left leg. 5 X 1 minute right leg
Definitely only for the turbo trainer. This is more of a technique rather than a fitness session although it will help to even out any imbalances between your legs. Warm-up for ten minutes in the same way as for Session One. Stay in the same gear/resistance as at the end of the warm-up but cycle one-legged for the next ten minutes alternating one-minute left and one-minute right. Concentrate on maintaining a high (80-100rpm) cadence and on a smooth fluid technique. Next shift into the big ring and ride moderately hard with both legs for ten minutes keeping up the same cadence and the same feel of fluidity. Cool down as in session one.
Session Five: Stairway to Heaven (42 minutes)
3 X 6 minutes of ascending difficulty with 2 minutes recovery
One for building hill strength and mental toughness. Warm-up for ten minutes in the same way as for Session One. Shift to the big ring but select a moderate sprocket eg.22. Resistance should be at about a third of your turbos maximum. Ride moderately hard. After three minutes, shift up two gears and try to maintain the same cadence for a further two minutes. Finally shift up another two gears and ride hard for a minute out of the saddle. Drop to the small chain-ring, drop the resistance and recover with easy spinning for two minutes. Shift back to the big ring but this time perform the “3 minutes, 2 minutes, 1 minute” sequence with two more clicks of resistance. Recover for two minutes again and then work through the “3,2,1” once more again cranking it up by two clicks. Cool down as in session one. Be warned, this is a toughie.
Mr Leigh, you obviously believe in your 20 min hard session. Post it on the forum below and see what sort of feedback it gets. There are some top lads read/post on there who do a bit on the turbo. Post us back a link to the thread in a few days and lets have a look at the responses.
Yes I have heard of Graeme Obree, why don't you reference your point if you have one and not just bandy names about?
http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php
Nicklas building up to time trial speed is hardly 'suddenly.' It takes about 10 seconds.To attempt to get to 25miles per hour in one second would be dangerous.I never advocated that.
All you say about the enzymes is 'fraid not.' Tell me why, why is a warm up essential to optimum enzyme function.All your doing is disagreeing without giving reasons.If you don't know, why don't you just say 'it's tradition' or something similar?
Now I've just looked in Graeme Obree's book.For his first hour record, he rode 3 laps of the track,hardly a warm up!There are other examples in the book as well.
Now I don't know whether it's important to warm up or not.In some sports it is, but we're talking cycling here.There are so many examples where athletes haven't warmed up, and didn't injure themselves.Or performed just as well, as they would have with the warm-up.
Last pointepends on what?Tell me the interval session and intensity?Make it 20 minutes worth so it's a fair comparison.Then we'll debate it properly, your 20minutes of intervals vs my 20 minutes flat out.
Last edited by CL; 14-02-2008 at 08:04 PM.
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