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Thread: BG - But Which Is The Summit?

  1. #1
    Master Marvin's Avatar
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    BG - But Which Is The Summit?

    Can anyone confirm which tops are the summits of Great End and Grey Knotts? For both these fells, the OS and Harvey's maps show different locations.

    On approaching Great End from Esk Pike, the OS map suggests the summit is the nearer top (226083) at 910m whereas Harveys suggest that it is the further top (225084) at 907 m. Bob Wightman says that Wainwright considered the nearer one to be the summit. But I know that some people go to the nearer one, and some to the further one. Which is right?

    Grey Knotts is even more confusing, where there are four tops. The OS map says the summit is about 100m to the left of the fence, before the fence turns to the right (GR217125), 697m. Harveys say that the summit is close to the fence, on the left just past the point where the fence turns right - GR219126, 697m. There are two other tops, one each side of the fence at 218126 and 219125, and to the eye, the latter looks the highest. The GPS (I know height isn't measured very accurately) also suggested that the last one was the highest by about a metre.

    So which of these points should an aspiring BG24HC member visit? I don't really want to go to all of them just to be sure!

  2. #2
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    Re: BG - But Which Is The Summ

    I was going to suggest looking at Ann Bowker's Mad about Mountains site to have a look at her panoramas from each summit but the site (other than the homepage) appears to be down. Wikipedia says of Great End (910m) "The summit has two cairns of very similar height, that to the north west being nearer to the cliff edge and having the better view." but doesn't otherwise commit to anything.

    Just to add more confusion: what about Brandreth and Nethermost Pike? Both of these have multiple candidates for the actual summit. In the latter case I have tried to differentiate between the tops using a GPS receiver but they were all within about half a metre of each other which was less than the error on the device itself.

    Wainwright tended to go with the OS but there are occasions where he disagreed with them. Remember that he didn't have Harvey's maps and will have only had the old 1inch maps and maybe some early 1:25000. He also wanted the books to be accurate so will have done quite a bit of checking, though that is no guarantee that his final choice was correct.

    In the absence of anything official - choose one that takes your fancy, I doubt that anyone will challenge you on it.

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    Master Marvin's Avatar
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    Re: BG - But Which Is The Summ

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    In the absence of anything official - choose one that takes your fancy, I doubt that anyone will challenge you on it.
    I'd like to do the "right thing", but without a definitive answer I'll do exactly that.

    At the top of Grey Knotts yesterday we discussed taking a dumpy level up to check, but the next time we're planning to be there is on the day of our BG, and asking our pacers to carry a dumpy round to check the height might meet a bit of resistance.

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    Re: BG - But Which Is The Summ

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
    I'd like to do the "right thing", but without a definitive answer I'll do exactly that.

    At the top of Grey Knotts yesterday we discussed taking a dumpy level up to check, but the next time we're planning to be there is on the day of our BG, and asking our pacers to carry a dumpy round to check the height might meet a bit of resistance.
    Marvin if you go to a 'top' believing it to be so then whether it's that 'cairn' or another 'cairn' 30 metres away, in my book you have in the spirit of the game climbed said top.

    I think worrying about 'is this the correct top' given the distance/climbing/time you will going for is not worth worrying about.


    Are you feeling strong and confident?

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    Master Nee Bother's Avatar
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    Re: BG - But Which Is The Summ

    Grey Knotts

    I think the summit (highest point) is the eastern most small cairn which sits atop a small rocky ridge very close to the fence, if you look very close to the cairn there is a brass or copper stud set into the rock which could be some kind of triangulation point.

    (on my BG i was made to visit all 3 tops ) as my pacers had differing views

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    Master Marvin's Avatar
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    Re: BG - But Which Is The Summ

    Quote Originally Posted by Nee Bother View Post
    Grey Knotts

    I think the summit (highest point) is the eastern most small cairn which sits atop a small rocky ridge very close to the fence, if you look very close to the cairn there is a brass or copper stud set into the rock which could be some kind of triangulation point.

    (on my BG i was made to visit all 3 tops ) as my pacers had differing views
    Which side of the fence do you mean?
    Grey Knotts.jpg

    I've marked the approximate positions of the tops on this image. 4 looked the highest, but 1 and 2 seem to have their supporters.

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    Master Marvin's Avatar
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    Re: BG - But Which Is The Summ

    Quote Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak View Post
    Marvin if you go to a 'top' believing it to be so then whether it's that 'cairn' or another 'cairn' 30 metres away, in my book you have in the spirit of the game climbed said top.

    I think worrying about 'is this the correct top' given the distance/climbing/time you will going for is not worth worrying about.


    Are you feeling strong and confident?
    I agree, but if there is a definitive answer, I'd rather go to right one than one of the wrong ones!

    Strong? Not particularly!
    Confident? Not particularly!

    Went up yesterday was a visit to reccy a few bits and pieces that we weren't quite sure about. It was far too hot and sticky, and many of the streams are drying up. I hope it's not like that on 28th June. At least we've got the grassy lines off Great Gable and Robinson sorted out, and decided which line to take up Kirk Fell.

    You must be brimming with confidence after all you've been doing this year.

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    BG - But Which Is The Summit

    There are a few other tops where the exact summit is debatable or often mistaken including
    Great Dodd, Stybarrow Dodd, Helvellyn (not the trig point), Dollywaggon Pike, Fairfield, & Ill Crag.
    So long as you are genuine about believing your top to be the highest there is no need for any misgivings if you later are proved wrong. I thought the west top of Great End was the highest on my BG round but I now believe the eastern top is higher - I could have saved myself a couple of minutes there!

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    Re: BG - But Which Is The Summ

    Heather Dawe (of Ilkley Harriers) was successful on an anti-clockwise round yesterday - see http://www.ilkleyharriers.org.uk/new.../news0804.html

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    Master Marvin's Avatar
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    Re: BG - But Which Is The Summ

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Heather Dawe (of Ilkley Harriers) was successful on an anti-clockwise round yesterday - see http://www.ilkleyharriers.org.uk/new.../news0804.html
    Well done Heather. Given the heat in the Lakes yesterday, that was some achievement.

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