Help Wanted: Glass Ankles

[southernsoftie]

Would like a bit of help from you experienced types if you wouldn't mind.

Apart from getting into the fells and getting used to it, is there any specific exercises/training I can be doing to toughen/strengthen my weedy road-runnning ankles and knees for the rigours of fell running?

I'm looking to start some hill-sprinting on some rough and tufty terrain near me - mainly for strength and speed, and maybe using a wobble board with some weight training exercises.

Does this sound about right, or is there anything else I could be doing? Any converts from road-running who've had the same problem?

[Big Compass]

I was told by the Physio lady to get a mini trampoline (£20) she said it is good for every part of the leg,ankles, calfs, abductors and helps with balance, standing on one leg and move the other leg backwards sideways when you get good with those movments start to look for harder thing to do, just 5 to 10min/day will help.It's also good after injury because it is low impact training.

[southernsoftie]

Thanks a lot - good tip. Might look at investing in one of them, until then I might try those movements on the missus' wobble board.

How's your injury responded to the trampoline?

[janeho]

I agree with the mini trampoline comment it is a good way of strengthening ankles and also improving proprioception (the feedback mechanism that tells your brain what position your joints are in) Do some jogging on it, stand on one leg with your eyes closed, jogging whilst throwing and catching a ball etc
Have a think about what shoes you are going out in as well. I wouldn't try to go out on your rufty tufty stuff with your road shoes. Generally road shoes have more absorbency making them a higher shoe - a combination of this and a lack of grip makes it easier to twist an ankle than if you were to use some dedicated fell or even trail shoes
Good decision though to change from the roads to some REAL running

[CL]

Would like a bit of help from you experienced types if you wouldn't mind.

Apart from getting into the fells and getting used to it, is there any specific exercises/training I can be doing to toughen/strengthen my weedy road-runnning ankles and knees for the rigours of fell running?

I'm looking to start some hill-sprinting on some rough and tufty terrain near me - mainly for strength and speed, and maybe using a wobble board with some weight training exercises.

Does this sound about right, or is there anything else I could be doing? Any converts from road-running who've had the same problem?

If you go to the injuries section and click on shins, you'll see some advice I gave to another runner for strengthening the ankles.

In my opinion wobble boards are a waste of time, because they don't provide enough resistance to really thicken the ankles.

For your knees you'll need full squats with a barbell and leg extensions. The full squats take some getting used to, because they require both a skill element and flexibility.Keep your feet flat on the floor throughout the movement, and go right the way down, until your calves are pressed into the hamstrings. Don't just go halfway down.

When you start use a low weight until you get used to the movement, then increase it enough to allow 20 hard reps. This is a shock to the system at first.

Another good exercise for the ankles and achilles tendons are static holds on a heavy duty calf raise machine.Let the weight push your heels toward the floor and hold the position.Don't attempt to press the weight back up, with the calves. Use as much weight as you can.

[saz]

I would stay well away from full squats unless you want to knee replacements - any benefit is minimal esp to a runner (when else do you get in that position?) while the potential for knee damage is extreme

[southernsoftie]

Have a think about what shoes you are going out in as well. I wouldn't try to go out on your rufty tufty stuff with your road shoes.

Yeah, been told this before - I'm getting some Running Bears at the weekend. I'll see how I go in them.

Good decision though to change from the roads to some REAL running

Quite a relief actually! Did flirt with fell running a couple of years back, but due to working hours/travelling time, I could only run round the streets of Manchester on a lunchbreak, and couldn't make it to any club meetings. New job now though. Bring it on!

If you go to the injuries section and click on shins, you'll see some advice I gave to another runner for strengthening the ankles.

You are an absolute mine of information! Thanks a lot. Will get stuck in.

I would stay well away from full squats...when else do you get in that position?

I was thinking of training for a trip to the continent

[detritus21]

In my opinion wobble boards are a waste of time, because they don't provide enough resistance to really thicken the ankles.

Wobble boards aren't designed to increase the strength of the ankle they are designed to improve proprioception which has very little to do with muscle strength. Proprioception is joint positioning. If you know where your ankle is in relation to the floor you are less likely to become injured. Proprioception is the bodies natural mechanism for this so your brain should automatically know where you ankle etc is and make fine adjustments to avoid overstressing the area.

If you look at someone with poor ankle stability the balance and proprioception is usually poor but isolated strength is good. Proprioception can be improved many ways but the age old standing on one leg is good. Someone with poor proprioception may be able to stand comfortably on one leg with their eyes open as they can use their eyes to determine what is going on around them. If you destract them or get them to close there eyes you take away a powerful balance mechanism and you will be relying pretty much solely on your proprioception which will in turn cause you to lose balance at the ankle. What you also need to remember is that proprioception is not the solely at the ankle there is a degree of proprioception at every joint.

When you are running on rough surfaces your concentration on what you are doing tends to be greater so you forget to look where your feet are landing if your proprioception is poor you are more likely to go over on your ankles or hit the deck completey as your brain isn't as aware of where you are putting feet.

Back to the original question I think you need to be looking at flexibilty around you ankles and just running on the fells/rougher terrain. Fell running will put more effort through your glutes and your quads and also to some extent your calf muscles

[janeho]

I would stay well away from full squats unless you want to knee replacements - any benefit is minimal esp to a runner (when else do you get in that position?) while the potential for knee damage is extreme

Yep unless you are planning to also go for the clean and jerk at Beijing don't do it

"Wobble boards aren't designed to increase the strength of the ankle they are designed to improve proprioception which has very little to do with muscle strength."

True wobble boards are designed to improve proprioception, but in order to hold your balance you are having to use the peronei, tib ant, and tib post so it does have some strengthening side effect. Particularly I find on the peronei.

[Big Compass]

Hi Softie
I have had my trampoline for over a year now, I still get injuries, could be co's I am an old git, but the recovery time from some has been good, one niggle pain I used to have on my leg( over 3 years) was my inner abductor, since I have used the trampoline this has completly gone. 3 weeks ago I went for a run and the right calf went tight, I was waiting for the rubber band twang effect in my leg but it never came, had a week off running but still used the trampoline and am now going to do P-Y-G this week.