Today's Bike Ride

[noel]

Big quads. If two cyclists with same weight height strength endurance, the one who is a better climber is so because of bigger quads, how come he's slower on the flat?

The biomechanics of turning the pedals is presumably similar enough on the flat and a hill. And gears mean it's not about whether you're better pedalling quickly or slowly. So I think the only remaining answer is: psychology. Some people put their all into hills, others less so.

[Gambatte]

The biomechanics of turning the pedals is presumably similar enough on the flat and a hill.

This I wonder...
On a climb your bicycle and body are at a different angle with respect to the gravity vertical. So the distribution of force you have to put on the pedals throughout the 360degree turn maybe is different, not more or less force, just distributed in a different way.
What do you think guys? Nonsense?
If this were true, I could perhaps train it on the turbo, like adjusting the overall geometry in some "climbing" way.

[Fellbeast]

I could not disagree more.

Haha I was joking. In a professional sport where, if you make it onto a team, I suspect you’re going to be pretty good on the flat and on hills to be honest. But doesn’t the sport then effectively steer you to try and be a specialist? Sprinter, hill climber, stage winner, contender, support rider?

I bet most great anythings in professional cycling went specialist just to get on and make a name for themselves

[anthonykay]

People have been making complicated explanations about biomechanics, and talking about the weight of the bicycle, but no-one seems to have mentioned the weight of the rider. Surely this is the obvious explanation. In my younger days I was like Gambatte, fast up hills but no match for any half-decent cyclist on the flat; and I was below 60kg.

[Gambatte]

People have been making complicated explanations about biomechanics, and talking about the weight of the bicycle, but no-one seems to have mentioned the weight of the rider.

Not true.
The original question, as I worded: two decent cyclists of same weight height strength endurance. What makes one better on the flat, and the other better on the climb? As we know, there are plenty of such examples at all level of (cycling) fitness.
Psychology is the answer I like best, but I wonder maybe there is much more...

[Hank]

Psychology is the answer I like best, but I wonder maybe there is much more...

Training? If you do more training to be better on climbs then, all other things being equal, you'd be better than your hypothetical equivalent rider who has trained less for climbing but more for flat speed.

[noel]

Training? If you do more training to be better on climbs then, all other things being equal, you'd be better than your hypothetical equivalent rider who has trained less for climbing but more for flat speed.

But isn't it just the same? Unless you're out of the saddle, you're just turning the pedals the same when you're doing a long hill as when you're chasing down a breakaway on the flat. It's all about power output (in watts - thanks MrB). Why would a rider have a higher power output when at 12% than on the flat?

[Fellbeast]

I found this http://https://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/a33915305/tour-de-france-weight-healthy/ which is quite interesting. Basically climbers are more likely to be whippets

[Gambatte]

But isn't it just the same? Unless you're out of the saddle, you're just turning the pedals the same when you're doing a long hill as when you're chasing down a breakaway on the flat. It's all about power output (in watts - thanks MrB). Why would a rider have a higher power output when at 12% than on the flat?

Well, this is a logic, but look at the facts:
Two guys, identical weight height power strength: if your logic were true, then the guy who is better on the flat would also be better on the climb. And we know there are many examples when it is not so.

[anthonykay]

Not true.
The original question, as I worded: two decent cyclists of same weight height strength endurance. What makes one better on the flat, and the other better on the climb? As we know, there are plenty of such examples at all level of (cycling) fitness.
Psychology is the answer I like best, but I wonder maybe there is much more...

So, after overtaking another cyclist up a hill, did you always ask them their weight as they sped past you on the next piece of flat road, to check that they were not any heavier than you?