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Thread: Today's Bike Ride

  1. #7781
    Senior Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    Thanks but I don't think this answers it.
    No matter how (un)fit, and overgeared or not. The workload your muscles are required to do is always the same, regardless standing or sitting...
    I was being simplistic, so everyone reading could follow

    I also think there's more to it, and there's probably a whole PhD subject waiting for someone. I seem to recall we did discuss this in passing a while back, and the general consensus was that pedalling out of the saddle was less efficient, but you could use more muscles, (and your body weight as Graham has pointed out), to develop more power.

    From a psychological point of view, I have always considered standing pedalling as something of a last resort, a little bit like walking in a fell race, where you do it because you have to when your legs are weakening. In terms of position, pedalling out of the saddle is a bit like walking up stairs, (in that you straighten your legs), with your arms in front of you. I suspect that cyclists find this re-assuring as they know they can walk up the stairs, so they know they will be able to cycle up the hill out of the saddle.

    There are some reasons why you should pedal out of the saddle on occasion. Firstly, it helps to prevent getting numbness in places where you don't want to get numbness, and secondly it offers greater visibility because you are higher.

  2. #7782
    I don't buy the point "you can use your body weight".
    Of course you can use your body weight to push the pedals down. But for that to be possible, you have to push your body weight up. Selling it whatever way you like it, the entirety of the workload can only possibly come from your muscles. You will never get any "present" from your body weight.
    Agree?

  3. #7783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    I don't buy the point "you can use your body weight".
    Of course you can use your body weight to push the pedals down. But for that to be possible, you have to push your body weight up. Selling it whatever way you like it, the entirety of the workload can only possibly come from your muscles. You will never get any "present" from your body weight.
    Agree?
    I agree. The weight of one's body and bike combined are the same whether seated or standing on the pedals. I think that a different position/angle of the legs/muscles suits, and is more comfortable, for some riders more than others.
    Visibility good except in Hill Fog

  4. #7784
    On the Skill of Balancing While Riding a Bicycle
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0149340

  5. #7785
    Master molehill's Avatar
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    Didn't get far up the hill before the thunderstorm moved in, lightning overhead I sprinted for home pursued by hail stones! Do cyclists ever get struck by lightning? I wasn't taking the chance.
    Don't roll with a pig in poo. You get covered in poo and the pig likes it.

  6. #7786
    Senior Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    I don't buy the point "you can use your body weight".
    Of course you can use your body weight to push the pedals down. But for that to be possible, you have to push your body weight up. Selling it whatever way you like it, the entirety of the workload can only possibly come from your muscles. You will never get any "present" from your body weight.
    Agree?
    No

    Whilst I can see what you are getting at, the fact is that when pedalling on the saddle some weight is being supported by the saddle and also the unpowered pedal (probably only the weight of that leg)

    When pedalling Out of the saddle you can shift your weight left-right so as to put more of your body weight over the powered pedal, (the unpowered pedal will still support a high percentage of the weight of that leg). An added benefit to pedalling out of the saddle is that you have to use your arms, and also some of your core muscles, to oppose the force of the power through the pedals by pulling the handlebars .

    In short, by pulling with your arms you can apply a force greater than your body weight through the pedals. In my club cycling days, 30+ years ago, a lot of my clubmate used to ride to Matlock to watch the Riber Castle hill climb. I was told it was most entertaining if you were at the top of the climb (where it merits double arrows by the OS maps) as someone always pulled so hard on the handlebars that they brought the bike right over on themselves (like a wheelie gone wrong)

  7. #7787
    Senior Member Marco's Avatar
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    A shorter ride than normal dodging very dark, and potentially thundery, showers. Started from just to the East of Hoar Cross and headed NE to Hanbury.

    New, GPS enabled, technology tells me I reached 36.7mph on the twisting, single car width, 1 in 6 descent from Hanbury into the Dove Valley - in light rain. With a tailwind bringing in a particularly nasty looking black cloud over my right shoulder I had to put in a big effort on the flat valley road (clocking 28.6mph at one point) to successfully out run it. By the time I reached Tutbury castle I was blowing a bit, but dry, and rolled downhill and over the River Dove into Derbyshire and then over the old North Staffordshire railway line at Hatton.

    The next obstacle to heading North was crossing the A50, which severed most of the North-South roads in the area when it was re-built as a dual carriageway. I found a way across at Foston, a particularly mangled village split in two by the dual carriageway, and headed North to meet the A515 to the West of Boylestone.

    With another very nasty looking black cloud coming my way, I headed South and under the A50 to Sudbury. I was feeling quite pleased with myself for succesfully dodging a second soaking, but when I looked South I saw the monotone grey sky of constant, light rain. At Draycott in the Clay I met it, and managed to get pretty wet in the last 5 miles

    26.4 miles with 1086ft of ascent

  8. #7788
    Master PeteS's Avatar
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    I think as Marco says you use a greater combination of muscle groups and weight distribution can be more dynamic which seems for me to generate more power. So I take a very Contador approach to shorter climbs i.e. out of the saddle but this definitely uses more energy and I can't keep this up for long. Anything more than say 500m in length and I'm sat down and probably turning a gear lower than I would when out of the saddle.

  9. #7789
    Marco, when I have time I'll try to explain why I consider your explanation wrong.

  10. #7790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    The next obstacle to heading North was crossing the A50, which severed most of the North-South roads in the area when it was re-built as a dual carriageway. I found a way across at Foston, a particularly mangled village split in two by the dual carriageway, and headed North to meet the A515 to the West of Boylestone.
    What upset me was when they built the Toyota factory and closed the straight road from Willington to Etwall, spoiling the best route into the Derbyshire Dales (although I don't get that far on day rides these days).

    Looking at the map, the A50 separates the village of Foston from HM Prison Foston, so maybe it's not such a bad thing after all.
    In his lifetime he suffered from unreality, as do so many Englishmen.
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